To think Gill Pharaoh had the ideal end of life

Yes, this sentiment is very revealing. As their wishes won't actually influence reality, all they're doing is pointlessly highlighting their desire that others, who have no actual impact on creating legislation but merely hold opinions contrary to theirs, will suffer. Gross.

I'm sure there would be similar legislation in place for AD. It would be completely inconsistent to legislate against it in the case of suicide but not in the case of AD. Any suggestion otherwise is seriously fear mongering

I am interested to know, given that people seem to think there's no inherent value in life, and nothing wrong with death, whether they would be philosophically in favour of the death penalty for those caught in the act of mass murder – so there's no possibility of innocent people being executed. Yes, in one case it's chosen and the other imposed, but if there is no inherent value to life, it strikes me as hypocritical to be philosophically against the death penalty in certain, irrefutable cases (I say philosophically as I understand that not wanting the state to have the power to execute people in actuality is an entirely separate issue.)

A criminal conviction and up to 14 years in prison. https://www.cps.gov.uk/prosecution-guidance/suicide-policy-prosecutors-respect-cases-encouraging-or-assisting-suicide

Exactly, it doesn't make any sense. It's estimated that 90% of suicide attempts fail. If it was that easy to kill yourself then the statistics would should a much higher success rate and lots of people wouldn't be living with the long term effects of failed attempts on their lives.

Bloody hell.

This kind of attitude is what makes me think that our current state of humanity means such nuanced and sensitive debates and decisions are still beyond us and would indeed lead to abuse of such legislation. The words vile and grim get overused on MN alot but apply here.

You have absolutely no evidence that women would choose freezing or donating embryos over abortion. I find it strange that you seem so adamant that many women would do this when the issue is so often that women don't want children at all (for them or others to raise) or don't want to share children with the father.

The goal of abortion is to end the life of the fetus so that there is no baby.

The goal of AD is to end your life so you don't have to continue living anymore.

No amount of mental gymnastics can make abortion a means to an end but make AD somehow all about killing yourself. Both are about ending life to achieve an end state that the decision maker wants.

I think that if you feel ready to go, then there are a million different ways to top yourself in a comfortable and dignified way that doesn’t involve anyone else. You do whatever works best for you.

If that's the case then what is stopping people coercing granny into doing this already?

If we're talking politeness, then it's not a good idea to call people's comments infantile sarcasm. It would behoove you to behave with the politeness you'd like to receive.

Regardless, how did I tell you what you believed and what you were thinking? I actually mostly asked a lot of questions, to try to ascertain your beliefs. It seems you'd rather make up claims of rudeness and dodge those questions than answer them.

I can only assume that's because you don't have any answers, and my original statement stands ‐ if suicide is now good, and people should be able to decide to die whenever they like, and for whatever reason, then I imagine that for the most part (except where someone isn't considered medically competent), society can stop trying to prevent it and start assisting it.

It’s infuriating when posters do this. If someone has had enough of life, they should be able to make the choice to die by having assisted dying in the UK. (I know this won’t happen in my lifetime.)

Yes, because 6+months of pregnancy that permanently alters your body and risks your life, along with either labour or a major surgery that could result in birth injuries or death, and then months of postnatal hormone and physical issues, plus the fact that the child could get in contact in the future, are totally no big deal! 🙄

It's about not being pregnant, as well as not being a mother. And I'm sure if women could freeze or donate the embryos as easily and cheaply as they could abort, many would do that. The goal is not to kill the foetus, it's for the woman to be able to resume her normal, non pregnant life.

That's a really good point, nobody else can know or they can be prosecuted.

Which means the person intending to do it can't talk about it freely.

Which probably means they're more likely to do it.

And almost certainly means they'll do it sooner for fear of ending up in a situation where they would need help that they can't ask for.

Agreed. Shame on you

For every person who is as fit as a fiddle at {insert literally any random age} there is someone who is extremely ill, lost control of bodily functions, no family, no friends, and life is unbearable with no chance of anything changing. For these people life can be physically and mentally appalling.

Do you think these people should be prevented from doing what they really want to do? Why?

Surely the idea that not everyone is like you/your granny/your great great great uncle/the milkman isn’t that hard to understand?

It’s amazing that some people are doing incredible things at incredible ages. Get yourself a job as a carer and you’ll very quickly see that not everyone lives like you. Go back to these same people day after day after day until they trust you, and have a chat with them. Some of them will make you cry.

What would they be then?

At the very least someone has to find your body.

And you need to make sure that won't be until after you are dead, so it could be a long time after your death and a horrible thing to find.

And it might go wrong and leave you with a brain still working but unable to live with any kind of quality.

And that might be the most fucking horrible thing I've ever read on here! Shame on you OP.

My DH is 74, fit and healthy, has all his marbles, and is still working full time running a very successful software company he founded in his 60s. I've just informed him that he's very elderly and should expect to pop his socks any minute now. 🙄

Your loved one will also end up at the coroner's and possibly their personal belongings being searched through for evidence that suicide was their intent. It could also end up as an inquest which can be traumatic for the people left behind, and can drag on for months.

Also, there will be no family around a bedside saying goodbye. The person who wants to end their life would have to do it alone, because anyone present when they end their life will get arrested and have all that to deal with too.

I think that if you feel ready to go, then there are a million different ways to top yourself in a comfortable and dignified way that doesn’t involve anyone else. You do whatever works best for you.

I’m firmly anti legalised euthanasia because I don’t have any faith in either the government or the NHS that no vulnerable groups will be targeted or that there will be no encouragement of people receiving significant and expensive assistance from the state.

You said a feotus wasn't a life for as long as it was in its mother's body. If that's the case then why can't people abort foetuses that are 39 or even 40 weeks? Afterall they're not alive a according to you.

I think people are more afraid of death than in the past. This is probably due to lack of religion. They don’t like having to think about their morality.

Suicide is not exclusive to modern or industrialised societies.

The oldest known suicide note dates back to ancient Egypt around 1900 BCE, titled "The Dispute With His Soul Of One Who Is Tired Of Life"