To think Gill Pharaoh had the ideal end of life

I've read this lady's 'last words' and I don't think there was anything especially wonderful about her decision to end her own life.

She sounds debilitated - possibly as a result of post-viral syndrome after the shingles - and some of what she says is fearful projection. She talks about not wanting cancer patients in the last stages of life to suffer but that's not the same as pre-emptively killing yourself.

I support the narrow definition of medically-assisted dying i.e. doctors should be able to medicate people who are terminally ill who request not to be in any pain or distress, even when the medication hastens their death. But the reason assisted dying is unlikely to become law in this country is the concern that if it were passed, there would be demands from people to access it for personal suicide when they aren't terminally ill. The 'civil rights' type argument thar people should be able to end their lives when they see fit is actually a demand for other people to become involved - HCPs in particular - and for the state to sanction it.

"Having watched several very loved people die slow, painful and frankly horrific deaths, totally at odds with their clearly expressed and documented wishes,.."

"I’m 46 and if I got incurable cancer or something dreadful at any age, I would absolutely be in favour of this. My Mum had cancer and it was horrific to watch."

I'm 69 and not even going to make these lovely 70s which people speak so happily of, where they will be helping out family and doing fun stuff - I wish I were, too, but two years ago I was diagnosed out of the blue with stage 4 cancer - I thought I was very fit up till that point so it was quite the surprise. I've been lucky to make it two years further and get to know my first gorgeous grandchild, and I do help out with him as much as I can, though he's a bit fast and lively for his Nana these days!

So yes, I am totally in favour of assisted dying, especially reading posts like the two I quoted (no surprise to me, so don't feel guilty anyone who said this or similar!) I was really hoping to be taken out by a swift heart attack, but since one of the drugs I used to be on before it stopped working is known to affect the heart, I've had many tests and unfortunately it looks like my heart is going to be the last thing to go, lol.

YABU OP.

She was a palliative care nurse, so that was probably something that heavily influenced her decision.

Saying that, I think I would feel differently if she was 10 or 20 years older and not mobile, even if her mind was intact, and if she was really suffering as a result. But 75 and in good health is way too young. I would feel so sad if my partner, parent, grandparent or even friend choose to leave me under those circumstances.

I guess what I mean by this is that life involves responsibility and duty and gratitude as well as personal fulfilment.

I think it’s a fundamentally different way of looking at life for me. To me, it’s not about having the best experience that you personally can, but being around and supporting loved ones, contributing to my community and profession as best I can. Appreciating the best of what life has to offer, nature and cultural experiences.

I’m in favour of assisted dying for terminally physically ill people as a means of ending great suffering, but choosing to go pre-emptively, even if you are a bit older and not in peak physical fitness, just seems sad to me.

How is it chilling to have control of your own life? She sounds like an utterly fabulous person.

I agree, OP - good for her! We should all have the right to die simply and peacefully at a time of our choosing, whether we're 25, 45 or 75. It's nobody else's business. I have no intention of getting old(er) and decrepit, so if I want to die in a few years' time in my 60s or 70s, I'll bloody well do it. Who on earth want to live to 100?

I used to agree with this train of thought but having seen the myriad ways that legal euthanasia can be abused has made me do a complete 180.

What are you suggesting though? That she should live for him and anything less isn't sufficiently considering the impact on others?

People end relationships and divorce people all the time. That's hard and has a big impact on the other person. The other person can torture themselves and feel not good enough but people have to make such serious decisions for themselves ultimately.

Because not everyone has the same mindset as your dad. Surely you can understand this?

I read a thread a few months ago where a poster was in her 50s I believe and stated she was quite bored by life. She wasn't depressed but just felt that life was quite repetitive and she was almost exhausted by it all. Lots of posters agreed with her. They weren't depressed either. I don't feel like that myself but I do understand what they mean about something just stop being fun anymore and the balance shifting. Some people have a thirst for life and want to keep going forever but some simply don't. They have had enough. Like a holiday that's dragged on too long. I think we should be able to respect that adults can make this judgement even if we don't share that view ourselves.

I’m all for euthanasia but the truth is if you are not that age yet you do NOT know how you will feel. You may not be ready to say goodbye to your grandchildren, you may still enjoy life and want a bit more. My dad is 95 and in decent health both physically and mentally. He’s going on a cruise next week and he’s certainly not ready to ‘go’ yet.

If you were in full health, why wouldn’t you want to get older than that?

I can fully understand if there were health issues, either mental or physical, but having a cut off at 75? My dad is 78- travels around during the summer in his campervan; looks after my brother’s kids during the holidays, and loves it. We hike regularly together… why would anyone choose to miss all that??

Absolutely. I can’t understand the mindset of a relatively healthy person who happily left behind her partner,children and grandchildren. They must all have been so sad.

Thats part of the problem isn’t it. You can’t wait until you’re incapable.

Being already retired just means I am further on in my journey than you are, and as I said the money in the bank will soon disappear and then I will have nothing but my superannuation to live on. I am also childfree, with no siblings, so therefore no-one to take care of me. So, what is this huge difference in our lives?

However I'm not sitting here bemoaning my fate as you seem to be. If you are still working what is stopping you from putting some money aside, or getting a better paid job? You already have more options than I do.

No, I'm not in Canada. I think maybe you should stop wallowing in self pity, do you seriously think you are the only person who has ever been in your situation?

I completely agree.

Ah thanks @redboldlip

You are running the risk today of being in a car accident and becoming paralysed

does that mean you should opt for euthanasia now to avoid the risk?

?most? Reasonably fit and healthy people at 70 will live many more happy years.

Not everyone by any means ends up in a care home with dementia.

with no limits many people might commit suicide when they could have been helped through their difficulties. many older people will feel duty to end their lives to pass on inheritance and “avoid being a burden “. It would certainly be cheaper for society as a whole.

at what point do you start thinking of those who raised and loved you as a burden !

Ive noticed that this OP often posts nasty, unkind things.

Just ignore them. They arent even worth getting upset about

Reading it, I wouldn't say her husband says he did understand the decision. He definitely says it was her decision to make but 'understand', I'm not so sure from what he says. But having your life partner decide to end their life when they are still relatively healthy and leave you, must be hard to deal with psychologically. Deliberately leaving you on your own and also, by implication, saying you don't want to face old age together because it's going to be crap and it's going to still be crap even with you with me. That's going to be hard for a partner, however much you 'understand' the decision. Completely different if they had terminal illness. Wonder how much she considered the impact on those who loved her. It's easy to say 'if you loved her you respect her decision', but that doesn't prevent the feeling that you were just not good enough for them to want to continue to share a life with you. That's hard.

Absolutely this. When the state also has to pay for the entirety of your healthcare, it has a major conflict of interest.

I am in principle supportive of AD outside the NHS, but I also find the number of people using it in Canada rather disturbing.

Bollocks. Tell that to my DF after he had a stroke and is 100% relying on carers for his every, single need. He wants to die, no one can achieve that for him.

If you are fully capable possibly, but if you are at the stage of wanting to end it you probably aren’t.