To think Gill Pharaoh had the ideal end of life

And long may she continue. It’s what I would want for myself and I’m shocked that’s 75 is being deemed very elderly. I think it’s middle aged.

it stresses me out that the naive want to reduce choices available to the prescient

@CurdinHenry it stresses me out that the naive don't think assisted dying aka euthanasia would be rolled out for people who can't afford to pay for their own care and are perceived as a burden on society. One comment that you're fed up and off you'd go. It terrifies me

This doesn’t change the fact that you are old. You have lived so far for 74 years. That’s what makes you old, your physical age and your body’s natural aging.

Well actually when I wake up on a morning I don't think Oh blimey, I'm elderly.
I wake up and get on with my life and do whatever I have to do that day, which includes housework, laundry, gardening- including grass cutting, hedge trimming, weeding etc, household admin, shopping etc etc. etc. In fact all the things I have been doing for the past 50 odd years.

Why should I think.of myself as elderly? On MN I sometimes describe myself as Older generation. which I am. But why should I play your game of putting labels on myself?

People can refuse life-prolonging medical treatment and do so all the time. I know two people who refused chemo and died with palliative care, another who ended treatment for a number of conditions and died likewise.

While you have mental capacity you can specify in an advance decision that you refuse specific medical treatments in specific circumstances should you become ill, have an accident or lose capacity for another reason such as senile dementias.

Or you can appoint an attorney for health and welfare who you think would be your best advocate in such circumstances. You can also co-ordinate the attorney and a final AD.

I agree, 75 is elderly.

So true!! My body, my choice.

It doesn't matter whether 75 is deemed "elderly" or not. We all know that experience of ageing can vary greatly, eg the 60 year old who has multiple physical and mental health problems and a hugely curtailed life, and their neighbour who is a spritely 80 year old, running marathons and chairing the Parish Council.
Nobody is applying some arbitrary age limit, because it should be about personal choice - if a person, of any age, wishes to end their own life, they should have the right to do so, preferably with assistance to ensure a smooth completion. It's really not complicated.

I don't think you can speak for anyone but yourself, really.

My own experience is probably that as many people will be getting tired of the effort it takes to stay alive at 70 as feel the other way around.

Those with ADHD who have been using physical activity, risk and novelty to moderate their symptoms face particular challenges with age.

Yes, but I wouldn’t call it very elderly, which is how some posters are referring to it. It’s only 7 years past state pension age!

Very elderly for me would be 85+

You don't help your case OP by saying that 75 is 'very elderly'. It certainly isn't today and I could list many people I've known (family and professionally) who were driving, gardening, socialising and volunteering at 90+ and who died without prolonged suffering. Also equal numbers where serious illness and disability hit decades before 75, including brain injuries.

I can't say I'm certain what I'd do if I had a diagnosis of dementia and have huge sympathy for people with eg MND who very understandably want to avoid a difficult death. It bothers me though that society could develop a midset that after some arbitarily chosen age, life is not worth living .

I want to add, watching my friends experience has made me realise how rigged the system is against you over 70, it doesn’t matter how fit and healthy you were. The provision for decent rehabilitation after strokes or TBI was virtually nonexistent when we were looking, it was straight into geriatric care. It is just not the same at your options pre 65. So I can completely understand the fear people have.

I Think once you are over 70, it’s the shocking speed that illness can change things. My friend, through a very physical hobby we share was going great guns at 70, then breast cancer, followed by hip replacement, shoulder OP, and now a spinal problem. I’d have said she would certainly make 100 a few years back but now I won’t be surprised if she’s gone before 75. You just never know whats coming.

People seem to be in denial!! Of course 75 is elderly.

Whilst I certainly don't advocate that 75 is at death's door and you should toddle off as soon as possible, you can't seriously believe you're not elderly. What age would you determine it's is if not in your 70s?

75 isn't very elderly. My mum has had a (small) heart attack and easily treated cancer and is still going to hobbies, zumba and her personal trainer at 78.

But the different situations about are not necessarily correlated to your age groups

So people who genuinely want to use it for themselves should suffer because others might abuse the system. Hmm can't agree with that

I find this whole area quite ethically complex. My mum is in a prolonged state of vegetation really. Bedbound, incontinent and being kept alive by a feeding tube. I’d 100% rather be dead than live like she is now. It will be a blessing when the call comes that she’s finally dying and I wish she hadn’t had the peg.
she was fine at 80, living like a zombie at 81. My dad at the same age is active and has a good quality of life.

I am absolutely in favour of assisted dying for those with terminal conditions. I’m a bit more torn in the case of Gill. I think she’s actually been incredibly rational but as a consequence of that she may have lost a number of good years. I think the hardest thing about it is knowing when life quality is likely to decline. If I knew I was destined for a shit few years from 86-89 for example, I’d be happy to go at 85. I think it is very hard to justify that call at 75 not knowing when or if the decline would come.

74 is not very elderly...many world leaders and Popes have been past this age. Yes, I know Biden was gaga but there will always be exceptions.

Did Keir Starmer only have 9 years left before he was classed as very elderly? I rather think he hoped he would still be in power!

People can have very elderly physical or mental health at any age and others have physical health and youthful mental health when they are past 80.

My dad is 87, teaches art classes, is Chairman of the Village Hall, is Musical Director of a local choir, gives talks on the Tudor Period, walks with a straight back and much else. His second wife is 69 and in poor health-he is the one looking after her!

Anyway, this lady had clearly had enough and was dominated by a fear that may never have come to pass. If she wasn't influenced by others and had really had enough, that that was her decision to make and maybe, once, you're over the age of 21, the decision is one that anyone should be allowed to make.

Not everyone feels the same way as you. If someone has had enough of living (and it shouldn’t matter what age that is) they should be able to choose to die. Some people wish they had never come into existence.

Quite.

I would add that you most likely will feel differently once you turn 70.

My life now is actually more fun than during many other periods of my life. I am extremely fit, I have a very wide range of interests and hobbies, and I have several like-minded friends. My husband is the same. I am very active and never bored.

I think you are projecting a bit there, as her brain has changed you cant say what she is feeling now. I support assisted dying for the terminally ill but it's worth noting that you can a pain free death from cancer and age related illnesses such as dementia.

It's not unreasonable to see it as ideal, and it's not unreasonable for others to view it otherwise.

I've gone through having had a family member aggressively try to convince me to kill myself to make them happy and to stop me being a burden to them, resulting that I've spent most of my life having the thoughts that my death would make people happier than me living as I am. I've met other disabled adults who have gone through and deal with similar. I also grew up near where some of the horror stories in Canada around MAID have happened.

I'm not against the fully informed choice for adults as long as they can withdraw or the action paused, if they refuse at the time up until the overdose is taken. I don't think anyone, even with dementia, should be held down to administer the medication no matter what they previously agreed - consent is only consent if someone can withdraw it.

I am strongly against people in position of trust and authority offering that choice to often vulnerable people - people can be informed of their options without their medical professional or a government professional involved with them giving it to them. At the very least, we should be able to have it in our records whether someone opts-in to having those discussion, and having that as the default to reduce the risks

I do think fully informed choice does include that death by overdose, even if given by a medical professional isn't always the commonly portrayed go to sleep, don't wake up. It will almost certainly make it faster than most conditions/natural death, which is part of the appeal - but that doesn't mean it is always comfortable or dignified. Most do, but not everyone reacts to those medications well and people should be prepared like in other medical procedures.

Why do you think killing a 700kg mammal is easier than killing a 100kg mammal?

Because we do not treat people like other animals, and biology isn't just about weight. No one is using pentobarbital or any other veterinary method for medically assisted dying.

In all process I know, it involves giving a combination of sedatives, an anxiolytic to reduce panic, and medication to paralyse muscles which are all used for other medical reasons. It's known that not everyone reacts well to those medications individually, but the medical team or individual may not know that before it's given how the person will react. The sedatives and muscle paralysers are used at dosages to kill, and the body can do some distressing things in that process no matter the means. We can make deaths quicker, we can get closer to, but cannot guarantee it being the peaceful death many want or appear peaceful to family members there. Those who work with the dying have been preparing families for the potentially distressing happenings of death before medically assisted dying, and it's needed with it as well especially in cultures where dying has largely been given over to medical professionals.

Yes, there are three categories. Young-old (age 65-74), middle-old/old-old (age 75-84) and oldest-old (age 85 and older.)