To think Gill Pharaoh had the ideal end of life

One of my nan’s had a fall which resulted in a bleed on the brain. She was admitted to hospital and despite some rather poor care, seemed to be making progress. Then she suffered another catastrophic bleed and we were told she wouldn’t survive. At best, she had a few more days. But Nan clung on, she died having had no food or water for days, laying completely immobile and incapable of speech on an incontinence pad with tears streaming down her face. We visited her every day for over two weeks, watching her get more distressed each time. What she went through was bloody inhumane.

The thought of that happening to me scares me far more than choosing to end my life on my terms.

THIS MAY BE UPSETTING TO READ. (AND I WISH THIS FORUM HAD A SPOILER FUNCTION.)

It is a total myth that it is possible to remove all pain in conscious people without giving life ending amounts of drugs. Since Shipman, life ending amounts of drugs are not an option.

Even in a fully staffed hospice, there are priorities and if someone else's priorities are greater than yours at that moment then you wait in pain and or indignity for someone to be free to help you.

Palliative care involves ongoing loss of dignity, wearing nappies and bathed like a baby.

Palliative care at it's absolute best is still not an acceptable way for me personally to check out of life.

This has really made me sad 😔 I've "sent" you flowers for support. It is heartbreaking that your Mum doesn't have much pleasure in her life anymore and, doesn't have the comfort of memories- this has never occurred to me to think about when it comes to dementia 💔 My grandma had it and died at 84, but also had other physical health problems. This was nearly 12 years ago. I wish you and your family all the best 💐

Humans are dispensable. We are functioning as a brief physical occurrence in a vast universe.

Yep, good palliative care is not always possible.
And not everyone wants to spend their final weeks and days in beds on heavy duty meds.

I would agree with this. History has shown us whole swathes of society are dispensable if it saves us using resources . If we can get rid of a good percentage of old people at seemingly their own bequest, then that's a plan. Use the advance medical break throughs and high quality health interventions for those that can pay for it. I think 67 seems like a good tipping point. Costs can be recovered from family.

I imagine staff shortages is a huge problem and limited weekend and night cover. Doctors also can delay recognising a patient is entering their final days.

I certainly never intended to cause offence so I apologise.

However, it's important to note that your description of "play your game" was pretty offensive to me.

I would actually like to know. People keep saying we need good palliative care and then everything will be fine and dandy.
However if your experience says different then yes that is useful.

No, I'm not saying anyone should live their life to please others, but we don't live in isolation and during our life we make connections that are important to others, particularly family where it functions lovingly, which very much seems the case here. None of our decisions are completely autonomous. Divorce etc is different. That's a breakdown in connection. This isn't a breakdown, this is leaving a connection because of the risk of something happening and it is a risk, not an inevitability, as we have seen many of examples of people gaving good healthy years after 75. We live with risk daily, but it's rare to permanently, as in deliberate death, mitigate the risk to this extent.
Maybe we should normalises living wills where we state the criteria thar we want assisted death. Everyone's criteria would be different, but not many would want to be kept alive for 10 years sitting in a chair with no self autonomy or awareness.
I agree we prolong life too much for the sake of prolonging it, but wouldn't agree that just the risk of the 10 year chair is a reason for the State to assist in stopping life. Everyone is shaped by personal experiences, though.

75 isn’t too young for some people. If someone wants to end their life, what gives anybody the right to stop them ending it? Is preserving one human life worth anything if that person genuinely doesn’t want it? Shouldn’t people be able to control their own outcome of their life?

I was asked at what age I would consider myself elderly by a poster who told me
you can't seriously believe you're not elderly
Which actually is pretty offensive.

As I said in my reply I get up in a morning and get on with my life and I don't sit around contemplating about whether or not I am elderly.

Of course getting older brings changes to your appearance and to your health. I would be stupid if I thought I was the same now as I was 50 years ago. But why are you and other pp so anxious to label people as elderly, or very elderly. ? I am a person living an independent life doing all the things necessary to look after myself and my home and my wellbeing. I am an individual. Why do you want me to put a label on myself?

I think personally 75 is too young. Right now I feel maybe 85 for me would be right but sits a personal thing.

Just like choosing to end your life is an individual choice.

That’s for individuals to decide.

It can be about living life safely as well. If you have capacity you can refuse all the medical help you want but sometimes sepsis for example, would be a worse death than having treatment. Not all older people are sitting around suffering.

Moving into a care home is just prolonging life (and suffering for many.)

The thing is , the brain you have now is not the brain you'll have at 80. You might actually be OK about moving into a care home as it would make your life easier. No cooking, bills etc . It hard to imagine and its not that common but it does happen

You’ve been asked a reasonable question, given the them of the discussions and your answers. No one is asking you to think of yourself as elderly. No one is asking you to label yourself, though the discussion is about descriptions.

Perhaps you prefer to think of ageing and being elderly in terms of what someone can or cannot do.

It would be great if it was that quick and easy!!

MND is the one diagnosis that if I got it, I would be booking my flight to Switzerland ASAP. I’ve seen a friend die of it. On the other hand, it’s not age related is it. Young people get it too. Re dementia, there are drugs that can slow its progress. Who can say that there won’t be a cure in the lifetimes of people who are currently middle-aged.

Play my game? I didn't make the language up off the top of my head.

A child is from birth to 17 years old. What would you call them if not children?

Elderly really just means someone has lived for many years, which at 75 you definitely have. I hope you live well for many, many more.

75 is definitely not middle aged!! Life expectancy for women is 83.

It's unlikely to be as easy as saying 'im fed up' and the next thing you know you're on your way to the clinic

Why should people stay alive when they’ve had enough of life? I don’t want to be a burden to anyone, and I definitely don’t want to end up in a care home. I want to choose when to die.