AIBU to consider leaving our knitting group over its new policy?

So sorry something you love is being ruined for no reason OP.

First of all, please completely ignore the "It's only something you care about immensely that you have put lots of attention into that I don't consider personally important" goaders. Their comments mean nothing.

And secondly, you should completely ignore the "But we must centre de menz at all times what about de menz tears?!" commenters as they're also utterly and totally irrelevant. Both these sorts are just lazily trying to get a rise out of you, or are too thick to be bothered with at all.

So, to your dilemma - yes you should just leave tbh. This person is one of the virtue signalling, unkind and disrespectful sort of women. That they've even brought this up means they are most likely trying to ferret out whether you believe in reality and decency or are a manpandering twat like they are. If you speak up they will definitely target you.

It's a shame they're choosing chosen to spoil something that matters such a lot to you, women's hobbies do matter and I am sorry they will not allow you peaceful respite from men.

You don't need to have been sexually assaulted to want peace from men - women are just allowed to want to not be around men.

Any man who would want to smash that decent, fair, absolutely commonplace and totally uncontroversial boundary is already the aggressor and any woman who wants to destroy that boundary or pretends not to understand why you might want it is not safe to be around.

She's already told you who she is. So yep, ditching her and the group is your safest option imo. So sorry.

Who'd have thought, in a knitting group of all places.

The world would be a much better place if people were kinder and more tolerant with each other. This is completely batshit. If you welcomed a trans woman to the group, you might actually find they become a friend.

My views are generally gender critical. But this is not a hill to die on. It’s only knitting.

Actually the Equality Act 2010 permits any association (a group of 25 or more with rules for membership and a selection process) to confine itself only to people who hold one (or more) protected characteristics (other than colour).

So, a women-only group is legal for any purpose. A women-only knitting group is perfectly lawful.

Only if you ignore the hundreds of legal decisions proving that isn’t true.

You'll have trouble finding even one legal decision saying it isn't true, because it is true. It's written directly in the law: Equality Act 2010 Schedule 16 Section 1, paragraph 1:

An association does not contravene section 101(1) by restricting membership to persons who share a protected characteristic.

I'd leave. Too political by far, and heading for disagreements.

If it isn't specifically a woman's knitting group, then there is no reason why men can't come along and therefore no reason to even mention trans.

Sounds like a lot of virtue signalling rubbish to me.

Why on earth can you not accept that some women find asserting themselves very difficult because they have been socialised to feel selfish if they do? If you have escaped that, then you're fortunate, not superior.

You are also not helping them by trying to make them feel like shit for struggling to do what comes easily to you, and for begrudging them a respite from their struggles.

What have politics got to do with knitting? You’ve clearly not been on Ravelry. I wish I was so lucky.

This has nothing to do with the OP, though. The chair isn't suggesting opening the group to men as well as women, she suggesting opening it up to a tiny percentage of men and excluding the others.

Edit to add: which would seem to be illegal under the Equality Act and would open the group up to legal challenge - which would be a huge time and money sink.

Why do you have to give your attention to men? What are you all, simpering ninnies who will just have to be cowed by the one or two men who just might turn up, who are of course going to dominate the proceedings and you won't be able to do a thing about it?
Oh, come ON!

I have been in groups where women outnumber the men before, and trust me, we haven't felt the need to give them our attention because they are men. We have simply included them as a member of the group, like we would any other. It hasn't changed the dynamic because we haven't let it. We talk about the same stuff we always have. Nobody's mansplained to us, because we have made it clear we know what we are doing.
None of them have ever asked to walk any of us home. They've joined us walking to the pub, though.

This. I have known men who knit, why should they be excluded from the group just because they are men? There are complaints galore if women are excluded from groups, why should it only go one way?

YABU, but if you aren't happy about it then you are free to leave.

It's an odd position to insist that someone who doesn't want men in a women's group is sexist, but also assume that it is inevitable that a man in the presence of a woman doing squats will be unable to refrain from 'leering'. 🤷🏻

It does seem unreasonable to be this upset over transgenders being allowed in the knitting group. It is a knitting group, it would be more reasonable if it were something like sports or a mother group or something like that, but knitting is just knitting. Most transgenders just want to coexist peacefully, they aren't going to bite or anything. There is a lot of propaganda that paints these people as malicious. I can tell you, they are just people who really really want to be the other gender. And they are like a teeny tiny percentage of the population. There is no need to worry about transgender people any more than normal people.
If you are scared of being in a club with a man, maybe you can try talking to a therapist about it and see what they say. Maybe it might actually be good to challenge those fears if they could get in the way of living your everyday life. Or maybe not. I would suggest talking to a therapist about it.

So we're being told that a few women wanting a couple of hours' peace and quiet to knit without having to give their attention to men (trans-identified or otherwise) is hateful and prejudiced and socially dangerous. For goodness' sake!

Men have the whole world to spread themselves in and plenty of attention from women already. They won't die if they can't join a women's knitting group. If they had any gumption, they would start one themselves, and either invite women along if they want them, or not if they don't. There's nothing stopping them.

Neither do I.

🥱
Don't you have your own board for frothing?

How is this to be 'announced'? Billboard? Full page newspaper ad?

When it was announced, what did the group say?
Why not just suggest you hold off on the advertising campaign, and go on as you are. If any trans women had wanted to join, I'm sure they'd have given it a go by now seeing as they only exist to take over 'your' spaces 🤷‍♀️
Or maybe they are all at home frantically trying to learn to knit just so they can crash your party.

Next time you're together, if it is brought up, have an actual discussion. Probably a good place to start

OP you are getting a hard time here from people who woefully do not understand the law . Come over to the feminism forum and ask there if you like .

But for the benefit of those giving opinions which don’t reflect the law.

An association with rules eg a subscription of more than 25 members has to follow the Equality Act.

If you are currently a single sex association you take advantage of the single sex exemption. Transwomen are men and can’t join a single sex association for women . They can join a mixed association open to all men and women .

Your new Chair would not be complying with the law wanting an association of more than 25 people for women and transwomen and not others .

The committee could be sued for unlawful discrimination by any man who wanted to join what would now be a mixed group. Any woman suffering a detriment, perhaps someone who has suffered SA or DV could also sue for indirect discrimination. Other women could too, but given it’s knitting and not somewhere where you might undress or be in a vulnerable position or state this might be harder to show though I take your point about men affecting the dynamics.

Tell the Chair and committee they would be putting themselves at great risk for being sued . That should quash any notion.

Yep. Four legs good, two legs bad springs to mind.
You don't end oppression by becoming an oppressor. It's not more ok just because the new oppressors were once oppressed...

Yep it’s like that old king of the hill game. So we fight and fight and one day swap a king of the hill for a queen of the hill by fighting over a pile of dirt.

Ultimately, we create a lot of churn but end up back where we started.

I would just wait and see. I suspect having knitting as a common denominator will build all kinds of bridges with people, whatever their gender. If you don’t like it then you can leave, but don’t leave what you don’t yet know.

Because the cultural attitude that a knitting group should only be for women and any men who want to join are immediately suspect of ulterior perverse predatory motives is outdated, paranoid/prejudiced and sexist.

Ofc you are free to be as unethical and immoral as you want to be, but cannot expect to be immune from critique.

Curiously, irrational fears are usually trotted out as justification for discrimination between different groups of humans. It starts small but engraining it in our culture ultimately seeds violent discriminatory practices.

It doesn't get us any further forward. It's just a different route backwards.

That's one view.

Other views can be held, expressed and, ultimately, allowed.

Everyone has on occasion unintentionally explained something to someone who already knew the information and more. It’s not just men. Think of all the unsolicited advice older women feel a need to give to young mothers.

It’s a knitting group. Members shouldn’t have to pass an ideology purity test or DNA sex chromosome test to join. All that should be left at the door to just enjoy knitting.

My (straight) DH does.
It's not just women who can knit, or enjoy doing so - that's a very outdated attitude