AIBU to consider leaving our knitting group over its new policy?

Trans women are not women (if they were, they would not need a special invite), and I agree that the group should either be single sex only, or open to both sexes.

I’d rather it was women’s only but if the group decides as a whole that men ought to be members id be open to that. It’s the view that trans women are women and we should accept that or we’re freaks that’s gets to me.

I'm sorry I was overly harsh, but we are talking about a group situation, not one woman alone. And no, I am not 'lucky', I am a rape survivor who let my attacker live rent-free in my head for years.
Women's spaces aren't just about locking the doors. They are about being the majority. Women in groups can own the space, they don't have to hide in it. That's not to say I think there shouldn't be women-only spaces, but OP's knitting group isn't a refuge, or survivor's group. I don't believe not a single woman in it, if backed up by the other women, couldn't deal with a mansplainer.

Women having space isn't just about locking the doors, it's about owning the space. Something we can do in numbers, don't you think?

Have you never been in a space where the women considerably outnumber the men? It's a different experience. Liberating, in it's own way.

No, I'm not superior. I just don't accept the narrative that we have to hide in corners because collectively we can't own the space we are in.

I'm in no groups. Women, men, trans, gay, straight. But I wouldn't define any group I might be interested in by what the people in it have in their pants.

I'm not particularly man friendly, but I've also met plenty of women who are arseholes.

That's not what the very first post says though. Read it again. She's no idea what she wants.

I would just stay quiet and see if a trans person joins, and if they do, if you like him/her/them. There tend not to be that many of them in real life.

This woman is virtue-signalling. I’ve never come across a trans person in an actual social situation - just as a stranger on public transport in London. There are remarkably few of them, they just have active lobbyists/campaigners.

That is perfect. Take yourself off, away from women who want to meet and chat with other women and avoid men in womanface who insist you call them "she" .

You are missing the essential difference between men's golf groups and women's knitting groups. You assume they are equivalent, but they are not equivalent because you are ignoring all the historical context of patriarchy and misogyny.

Men's clubs, like golf, specifically excluded women because they were as much about business opportunities and business networking as they were about golf. By excluding women, they kept women out of the power structures and money making networks.

Women's groups are also not mostly about the specific hobby (knitting or anything else), they are a chance for women to gather away from men. But the reason for wanting or needing that single-sex gathering is not to exclude men from power or business deals. It is to let women feel safe and free from men.

As @Solentseeker described, if you go to a women's group, you know that there won't be a man there trying to chat you up and offering to walk you home.
Do you have any idea the extent to which women just want men to leave them alone? Women want to go out and not be bothered with all that sex-seeking behaviour from men?

How dare you be so patronising and insulting to a woman with valid concerns that many of us on MN would empathise with. Just one man will completely ruin an all female environment, and why should women put up with this? And by the way it is sick and moronic to suggest that a woman should ever have to defend herself with knitting needles in a craft group. Hang your head in shame, so misogynist

Why on earth can you not accept that some women find asserting themselves very difficult because they have been socialised to feel selfish if they do? If you have escaped that, then you're fortunate, not superior.

You are also not helping them by trying to make them feel like shit for struggling to do what comes easily to you, and for begrudging them a respite from their struggles.

I’m in a women’s knitting group. It started as just a group of friends and extended from there. We meet twice weekly in an hall that has to be booked and paid for and go on trips etc so it has become more formal over time and has a treasurer, secretary, social secretary etc. I and two other friends were founder members but we take a back seat in the organisation now. We attract lots of younger members (30-somethings!) which is great. I (early 60s) love socialising with people, hearing their views etc.

The new chairman (woman) has recently decided that we should announce that we are ‘trans friendly’ and try to attract trans women and non-binary people. Apart from the fact that I don’t know what non-binary people are other than people who don’t sign up to gender stereotypes (most of the women currently in the group don’t go in for nails / make up / fake tan etc anyway so what’s the difference?) I don’t want men in the group, trans identifying or otherwise. I’ve been sexually assaulted a few times in my lifetime, as has another of the founder members. We’ve also always appreciated having a space away from the male gaze and voice, where women can have their voice centre stage for once. I know a number of the current members are also extremely concerned about this new push and would feel pushed out too if any men join.

I have no desire to ‘out’ myself as a ‘TERF’ by complaining or pushing back as it would in their eyes make me a ‘bad’ person and I always try to do good by everyone. I just disagree wholeheartedly with the idea that men should be treated as women because they say so. It seems so seething misogynistic. I’m deeply sad about the whole situation and think I’m going to have to leave the club, because the current chairman seems to stand for things that I don’t. I appreciate women’s rights and they don’t seem to give a fig. What do politics have to do with knitting? Do I just leave? Do I wait and see whether any men try to join before leaving? I can’t be arsed to fight back even though I would have a LOT of (currently silent) supporters.

I mean, this was a base for racial segregation- saying that white people have right to white people only spaces.

I think you're perhaps being a little disingenous in your OP, you start by saying you don't understand what people mean by non-binary, and imply that you think not wearing nail varnish could qualify, then use the terminology of the online debates on this quite fluently a few lines later (TERF).

"...Apart from the fact that I don’t know what non-binary people are other than people who don’t sign up to gender stereotypes (most of the women currently in the group don’t go in for nails / make up / fake tan etc anyway so what’s the difference?) ....I have no desire to ‘out’ myself as a ‘TERF’ by complaining .... I just disagree wholeheartedly with the idea that men should be treated as women because they say so."

I think you had pretty strong views on this before the new(ish) leadership proposed being welcoming and friendly to all, and you're portraying yourself as an uncomfortable elderly newcomer to the debate, to gather sympathy.

Maybe start your own, womens only knitting club, with that aspect made clear as part of its identity, if you feel so strongly about it; its not your job to ensure the existing club excludes people to your personal agenda.

Presumably the same reason that men want space away from women, on male-only golf courses and shooting clubs.

Women fought for the right to be able to fully participate in traditionally male pursuits. And now we're regressing back to, yes but the women should be able to knit without men, and the men should be able to play golf without the women.

There are legitimate concerns around places where women are vulnerable, either physically or emotionally.

A knitting group - OP needs to grow the fuck up OR set up a women's-only knitting group that excludes men AND trans people, so she can talk about womanly things. That's fine. But knitting groups as a class don't need to change because she's a terf.

Let's stop being so divisive. Women's rights, men's rights and trans rights can easily co-exist if we all just stop being dicks.