AIBU to consider leaving our knitting group over its new policy?

The way you're erasing the existence of 'trans men' (aka women who identify as men) is pretty transphobic.

What is "gender identity"?
What is "trans"?

Yes – I'm just generalising. This issue wouldn't be so relevant and relatable if not for the fact that trans people are generally trying to have full access to all spaces of their (unattainable but) desired sex.

I would be surprised if all the trans people that are friends of the pp I quoted don't access any cross-sex spaces at all. There are always a lot of claims of understanding and sympathy, but no evidence of it.

Hysterical 🙄
For someone who's got a problem with trans women as they're "woman face", that's an interesting choice of word 🙄😁
That's not tone policing either before you start, use what you like, just saying people with your views usually pull up anyone with different views when they use it, saying it's misogynistic.

Dropping a bit low there, calling someone hysterical...

Also your point makes no sense. To you, as a terf, trans people are "men in women face" (never heard thst before, gross).
So surely you are pretty much saying "this isnt about bananas. We just want to ban yellow tropical fruit".

What is wrong with something being "divisive", meaning women having a hobby club just for women? Not everything has to include everyone, and that is OK.
Why is it a 'pity' for women to have a women-only club?
I really don't understand your point of view.

It is not about anyone blaming or excluding your sons, or any other men, for their crimes or attitudes. It is not about having assumptions about all men.

It is just about women having the right to exclude men from hobby clubs. Just because they want to. That is all.

I don’t see any inconsistency in the OP’s position.

She’s been perfectly clear: she would prefer the group she started to remain women only. However, if the Chair & a majority of the members want to open it up to men only, she will accept that as a democratic decision.

What she doesn’t want is to be put in a position where she’s supposed to applaud some bloke having a lovely, validating time being in a ladies group because he is a lady doing lady things with other ladies.

I would feel the same, honestly.

Mind you the Chair may feel she’s doing all the work & all the admin whilst OP & the other OG Founding Knitters just rock up & grumble about change. Possibly the group has just run its course in its current form.

It’s unfortunately what happens with any club over a certain size - eventually the People’s Popular Front of Judea have to bugger off & do their own thing (‘SPLITTERS!’) - which is why the only fair thing to do is vote on it, & the minority opinion group, whoever that turns out to be, just go & do their own thing.

How lovely. Meanwhile, back in the real world, we use safe guarding to try and keep people safe from crimes being committed against them because we actually care about protecting people rather than always prioritising mens feelings.

Maybe go lecture rapists on how they're making other men look bad, or is it simply womens job to ignore their own safety and prioritise male feelings?

Its utterly bonkers to me that some women get this upset at women having their own things, because it might make men sad.

This completely contradicts your previously stated reasons and shows your true colours. Previously it was men change the dynamic/men overpower women's voices/women have been sexually assaulted so need a women only space. Now, you're okay if men join, just not trans or non binary people.

Incorrect.

You can have a group for multiple characteristics, but all members must share all the characteristics. A disabled lesbian Christian group is for women who are also same sex attracted and disabled and Christian. Not for disabled Christian straight women, or able bodied atheist gay men.

LGBTQ group tend to be for people in all those groups and 'allies' - so they are not protected characteristic groups, they are shared interest groups open to all.

Horrible decision the chair is making. And I’d suggest the alternative is that they start a new knitting group for whoever wants to join, whilst your original group stays as a women’s space.
So sorry this has happened, honestly, it’s toxic stuff.

To be fair, they're not at present. The leader is trying to actively recruit, no transwoman has asked to join as far as I'm aware.

I agree that they need to have a vote on whether to make it mixed sex. And if it is, the OP can set up another women's group, annoying, but there we go. And I bet if it's mixed, no transwomen would join, but the leader can have had their way. Or men and transwomen can join that group and knit away.

The leader is both virtue signalling and ignorant of the law.

Your post sounds a bit hysterical and reads as confusing. This isn't about bannign "transpeople" just continuing to be being women-only and not admitting men in womanface. Women who opt out of their womanhood are just as welcome.

All of this. God forbid women want some space for themselves once in a while.

YANBU, OP.

It's the same as me being able to decide to use a women's toilet or changing room, or a uni sex one. If you know if it's women only or both sexes then you can make the decision to whether you are comfortable using them. But a women's only group where only special men are allowed to join, is essentially a unisex situation but pretending to be women only. Things can either be segregated by sex or they're not, I would be more comfortable joining truly mixed groups or women only than the weird women and trans women only ones. I would be happy for women's only groups to include trans men as they are still biological women.
Excluding all other men and inviting trans women into the group is far more likely to result in certain trans women joining that think being a women is a fetish and relishes making women feel uncomfortable and making them out to be horrible people if they dare to speak up. In a truly mixed sex environment they're far more likely to keep themselves in check because other men are around or possibly not join at all because it's not a special woman's club they can join

Then why do they continuously insist on making a significant/large minority women uncomfortable and/or fearful, and push women out of their own female spaces (whether social groups or female facilities) by forcefully inserting themselves?

How about you actually answer my question first, before asking your own?

And by the way, I know two men who are lovely too, doesn't mean they all are or that we have to let men into our spaces, does it?

I think this type of policy is important to the younger members and will show that the place can continue to be a welcoming and open space for women. I doubt any trans women will join. I don't think you need to make a big stand or be radicalised here or elsewhere online to do so. Just keep enjoying the group, keep enjoying the chats, and be open about why you struggle with this policy but that you are up for a debate, not just a shutdown. These rows just run and run and the risk is that this place of sanctuary, community and belonging turn into turf (pardon the pun not intended!) wars. Good luck!

Have you ever spent time with a non binary or trans person? They're generally not as scary as people on MN like to make out. Sure there are some bad apples, just like there are some bad women, some bad men. Bad white people, bad black people. Bad Muslims, bad atheist etc.

I didn't say it wasn't valid. I'm allowed to think it's a pity, and to find it divisive, despite my own horrendous experience. I am allowed to think nothing will change if all we do is avoid each other.
If I had sons, I am not sure I would want them growing up being blamed and excluded for crimes they have not committed and attitudes they don't have. I don't like assumptions made about me before I open my mouth, based on my gender. I don't see why I should support that attitude in reverse.
It's taken me years to learn that my attacker is to blame. Not the the whole of mankind. His crime is not my brother or my husband, or my male colleague's crime.

It is NOT about "transpeople". It is never about transpeople, it is solely about MEN who pretend to be women and invade women's private spaces for fetish reasons. As has already be stated, women who opt out of being women are still welcome to attend.

TwoPintsOfCherryadeAndAPacketOfQuavers · Today 11:22
SeaAndSangria · Today 11:21

A trans woman is a bloke.

Try telling them that!

The trans people i know are very sympathetic to the idea of predators and women such as yourself views. As people who are used to facing discomfort, they hate the idea of causing it for people. They are aware that the usual bad eggs ruin it for everyone. We discuss it often. Have YOU even met a trans person?

I think you have misunderstood some posts but that's alright I won't assume you are a disengenuous idiot .

I'm sure she'd rather not have ordinary men in the group, if she had the choice — it's more that...if you're going to make the group unisex by virtue of allowing in men who enjoy forcing women to pretend that they are also women, you might as well let in any normal bloke who's interested in knitting.