Are these people really British?

I have a huguenot surname, so my ancestry through the male line goes back to these French protestant refugees from around 1685. But since 1685 there may have been 14 generations of my family, so I have 2^14 = 16384 ancestors from back then. If 2 of these were French then I must be a massive 0.01% French, the rest could be British.

About 800,000 huguenots left France between 1685 and 1700, and went to countries all over Europe. Many of them were skilled artisans, merchants and financial experts. France suffered severely economically for decades after their departure, and the receiving countries benefited enormously. Industries that still thrive but owe their existence to the huguenots include the Swiss Watch industry and the Irish Linen industry.

@suburberphobe And not only are we very homogenous, we tend to stay put. There was a study from Liverpool uni about it.

But we are not mixed. We're hugely homogenous.

We're one of the most homogenous nationalities on earth. Yes, there has been a lot of immigration in the past few decades, but most white British have stayed the same since the Vikings shagged us. From the link below:

• There are separate genetic groups in Cornwall and Devon, with a division almost exactly along the modern county boundary.
• The majority of eastern, central and southern England is made up of a single, relatively homogeneous, genetic group

Check this out; it's fascinating.
https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2015-03-19-who-do-you-think-you-really-are-genetic-map-british-isles

Happy to. I’m all 4 corners of the uk

Yes, so you had a compelling reason apart from financials (more freedom as a woman).

As for the general point that someone made about immigrants doing it just for money, I can think of SO many reasons why people might immigrate that aren't about money:

Some people immigrate to be near family who have moved. Some people immigrate because they like the lifestyle better in their adopted country, like people who move to Australia because they like the outdoor lifestyle. Or they're gay and want to live openly whereas their own country is hostile to that. Some people just LOVE the country they're moving to, hence terms like Francophile. And some move for better weather. Not to England, admittedly! But that's a big draw for Brits who immigrate to Spain.

@glitterpaperchain You said you find it odd when Americans describe themselves as Irish. The reason white Americans say that are Irish or Italian or whatever it may be is because that IS the entirety of their genetic and cultural makeup, being that there are no indigenous white Americans. You can't be a white American and your family be originally from America. That is not a thing.

This is why all white Americans define themselves by their European heritage. Some have very mixed European heritage, so they might say they're English, Irish, Scottish, and Italian, but there are many, many Americans whose entire heritage is Irish or Italian (two big ones). In those families, the great-grandparents came to America from Ireland, say, and they settled in Irish neighbourhoods and marry other people whose entire families also came from Ireland. There are parts of America today where pretty much everyone has an Irish surname. Same with Italian Americans, and I think possibly the same with people of Nordic heritage in parts of the mid-West.

America's not like England where a given person has their English heritage and then they might have a bit of Irish because they had an Irish great-grandparent. An English person would never thus define themselves as Irish. But for white Americans, that European ancestry they mention is the entirety of their heritage and background, because they are not indigenous Americans. That's why they define themselves by whatever European country their families immigrated from, not so long ago.

The cultural set-up in America is totally different from ours, since every white American comes from a family of immigrants. English people in England are in their ancestral homeland, whereas the ancestral homelands of all white Americans lie abroad. And many of them feel very close ties to those countries. Apart from being genetically from there and their families coming from there, they are often brought up with food, recipes, customs, stories, and traditions passed down from the family members who immigrated to America. For many, many white Americans, it was only a few generations ago, and often within their grandparents' living memories. Plus many of them have extended family in the "old country".

I am an immigrant and there’s some truth to what the poster said. Most immigrants or maybe all come to improve their life circumstances- often they are financial positions or better career opportunities. Some are escaping war zones but most are here for better opportunities.

I came to UK under highly skilled migrant programme. I wanted to advance my career, also wanted more freedom than what was available to women in my culture.

@NotAnotherScarf what a strange view you have of 1688. These were not halcyon days . Life was riven with disease, infant mortality, and there were no laws to protect women. There were no clean water systems or sewage plants, no heating, electricity and working life was hard with no conveniences. It was especially hard for women of all classes with little chance at independence... I could go on....
Post second world war has generally been an era of wealth plus huge improvements in life expectancy and female empowerment.
This is starting to change slowly again.

Absolutely fascinating!

Just Googled it...the French Hospital, Rochester, Kent. Looks very nice. I feel some French ancestry coming on as we speak!!!! 🤣

Je suis goer maintenant in order to faire my family arbre.

The British are one of the most mixed nationalities on earth.

And thank god for that.

The whole world is mixed through the centuries.

hate racists

I’m not intending to be pedantic.
I simply was confused by what you wrote ( in fact, still am, a little). That’s why I’m being, as you put it, very pedantic.

Since you recommend it, I might check out the book, and that might clear things up for me. 🙂

So… a bunch of Heugenots came to England and so we can’t be concerned about mass immigration? Is that the gist?
Thats a bit silly, if so.
I am genetically 100% not British (various genes, some from much further than France, and some certainly refugees, although not ever supported by the state) but I can appreciate that the level and speed of immigration of people from places that will not (and have no desire to) assimilate here is a major problem.
My family, on both sides, have been both grateful and loyal to this country (and yes, have risked their lives to defend it). That is not the case- and never is likely to be- for many of the recent immigrants.

Well it's very difficult, because you can't have the conversation without mentioning religion or culture ever at all, at which point it's hard to avoid either actually being swayed by stereotypes or having people think you are and shutting the discussion down before it's started. Race is easier to avoid as it's genuinely less relevant except as something that creates a perception of difference, but by itself there's no actual effect. Again it's like weather in that human migration's effects are incredibly complex and the same type of migration can affect different places in different ways . Temperature, pressure, humidity, how built up a place is, how far inland it is, altitude, local environment, infrastructure, all affect people's experiences of weather. Types and extent of religious, cultural and language differences, what the community is like before the migration, how big it is, how well off... likewise affect experiences of immigration.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

What about them Romans, giving us bloody straight roads? Absolute nerve.

Re. your last paragraph, good point. I think that in England, at least, the vast majority of people stayed in one place for hundreds of years. I've read about this before. There was a study from Liverpool University a few years ago that showed how, even today, most white British people stay quite close to where they grew up - or they come back after a few years away. Check out my Google results below from a search on it just now. When I did my family history, it was the case that both sides had stayed local for hundreds of years, same as yours. I only got back as far as 1600s, so maybe they were around in those areas much earlier.

So I do wonder if the study was designed the way you describe because we know, from previous research, that the white British are homogenous and tend to stay in one place - at least, up to the last few decades when there have bene more changes and mobility for more people.

I haven't read it properly though - just skimmed. Maybe there's a disclaimer that cautions what you caution.

It's fascinating, isn't it. I would have said that as a nation, even white British are heterogenous and that we move around a lot, but quite the opposite appears to be true!

Agree with this very sensible point.

Even this I could have got on board with on the basis that leadership knew we needed immigration to boost economic growth, and it would not be popular.

But two things have come to light that have hardened my view. Most importantly the Pakistani rape gangs - operating in 149 areas, an organised endeavour, with as many as 250,000 potential victims. Our governments simply failed to keep us safe, the fear of being called a racist so great that many people kept quiet who had a duty to protect young vulnerable girls.

The second one is the research that shows that immigrants of a South Asian origin excluding Indians are a net cost to the country. Overall immigration is a net gain, but take out Europe and it’s net cost, though Indians are net gain.

The media didn’t report this strongly (again likely because being called a racist is the worst thing you could be) but it really matters.

Our governments have failed us badly on this issue.

Yes
Like a husband who says he'd do anything for his wife but also never washes up.
It's easy to be patriotic about big theoretical gestures.

Don’t be silly. There’s a clear difference between someone who was born and grew up here so is generally regarded as British (in contrast to a lot of countries such as Sweden or Korea where people commonly don’t view such people as nationals) and someone who arrived more recently having grown up in a completely different culture and speaking a basic level of English or none at all.

To be fair, "I would give my life for this nation" and "I will gladly pay taxes to this state" are not quite the same statement...!

Fucking beaker people.

Comin' over here with their bronze shit.

Twats.

Well, that's why we have laws around tax etc not just a voluntary system. Because not everyone does feel as if they owe the system something and some will always take the piss. Personally if someone came over here 25 years ago and had worked hard and done well for themselves In happy for them but expect them to pay back into the system. Likewise someone who was born here. I'm not sure if there is a racial component to this. It would be interesting to see.

And if you look at legal records from the 1600s etc, you will see there were people back then who were the same.

What's ironic is some of the influential people most invested in promoting an ethnic/religious English identity are also strongly opposed to the idea of rich people paying tax. And sometimes are non-doms for tax purposes themselves.

I think I'd put myself in the category of "identity is unsettled" so I agree to some extent with that. But I'd also say that I agree with @SixtySomething in that my experience of also being a bit mixed, makes me see it from the other side as in I have relatives and friends who will staunchly identify to the grave that they are X (not British), even as they happily sign up to multiple citizenships on paper. And will assist others of our group preferentially etc. I think it's nice to believe in a beautiful colour-blind world but I don't think that's how most people in the world actually see it.

For the record, I have some non-white-but-raised-here-for-some-generations friends who I consider more British than I am. I think they'd die for this country / send their sons to die for it. I can't say that for all of my friends though. This isn't a moral judgement - they're all very pleasant, hard working etc, but if push came to shove they'd go back home because this is just a generally pleasant economic zone for them.