To be sick of politicians using 'fairness' as justification for tax rises?

@Itchthescratch ,

‘Many countries still have functioning societies with arguably better functioning healthcare systems without such high taxation. Yes, those healthcare system wouldn't be accessible to everyone but higher earners would almost certainly be able to access them. In this country they are paying for their own access to a troubled healthcare system and lots of other people's access too. That's where the grind is. If there weren't obvious examples of other countries delivering better value to high earners then your argument would hold more weight.’

I am curious to know which countries you are thinking of?

But, besides that. It’s not what most want in the UK. Most want a functioning health system for all, regardless of ability to pay.

And that is what we choose when we vote.

If you prefer a country with even worse equality of outcomes than the UK, then there are many many to choose from where, for the right price, you get excellent healthcare.

There’s a very obvious flaw to only some people being able to access medical care.

I’d be one of those who could, but that absolutely doesn’t mean it’s right to deprive anyone else of it.

I don’t use education directly but I recognise that I benefit from the presence of well educated people. The private healthcare sector is staffed by healthcare professionals trained in the NHS and, as you say, would be of no use to them if they needed emergency care or very complex surgery. How can high earners who you’d assume were intelligent fail to see that they are using those services, just not directly?

they’re happy to pay for services they use - NHS, educstion, and welfare/pensions seem to be the bugbears as they can’t envision ever having to use them. Even when I point out that private urgent care is not the same as A+E.

What do they use if their house catches fire or they’re burgled? What do they drive their cars on?

Same here. But we have to accept that a lot of high earners, especially if they are expats/immigrants, simply don’t use these services and don’t see why they should pay for them. I’ve had these conversations with work colleagues and it can be infuriating.

No, you haven't forgotten your own arguments. You rely on the hope that other people will have forgotten what you've said.

This is getting beyond tedious now. I won't be answering you regarding your poor form on this thread any more so feel free to have the final say. Bonus points if you insinuate I'm condescending or don't know what I'm talking about.

I'm saying your argument changes any time someone refutes it. It's all there in the thread.

Remember what I said about not wasting my time?

Im sure i'll get flamed for saying it but

Lower earners in the uk actually dont pay enough tax & social security contribution, compared to most other developed countries.

Our personal allowances encourage people to get used to earning a part time wage & paying very little tax. Then it can feel hard to progress to higher incomes where you lose more in tax.

In most other countries, social contributions (equivalent to NI) are higher and start from "the first euro".

In the uk a huge slice of the workforce contribute very little in tax & NI.

The government cant invest to grow the economy unless more money can be raised

@ClarkeandNewman

Ah, found the post you referenced. You said:

You need to be able to keep up and make your points clearly. It's an important skill to have

So, can you? Do you have this skill?

You're at it again! Do you not realise that what you've said is there for everyone to read?

Tell you what, don't bother wasting my time replying directly to me any more unless you can (a) remember what you've already said and (b) answer sensibly and appropriately to the point being made.

TTFN.

Dh has two nieces. One has never worked one day, has two dcs (no fathers involved - well, I suppose they were for two minutes!), a three-bed council house in a desirable commuter village, anxiety and a new motability car. She has plenty of time to do her own thing, walk her dogs, garden, meet friends etc.

Other niece went to university, got married, rents a 2-bed flat, pays childcare, has little free time and she and her dh live frugally to save up for a property in a meh area.

Who is the mug?

If the tax free allowance has remained the same for 6 years its already cost all those over it about 4k each assuming a 4% only increase and considering inflation is so much higher…
So a holiday, or car even!
Assuming you would pay 20%

I dont think a average 34k person could afford to live with the costs as they are even without housing costs.

Throwing money at UC and removing the cap doesnt help because many of the families do not work and dont intend to so just get more and more expensive.

I think i would put a suggested limit of number of x more a company can pay the top vs bottom employee. (Unless they own the company).

Companies should have to be sent a list of how much the lowest paid employee will have to claim from uc if they have / kids but work FT.

Assuming people need to pay minimum 12k year just for housing.

One where the middle-ground are not totally rinsed.
We are absolutely not all paying our way.
Its an entitled expectation from certain demographics that someone else will pick up the tab.
Apparently Burnham may be asking people for 'a little bit more' .
But its always the same fucking people getting 'asked' isn't it??

I’m a higher rate taxpayer. We have private health insurance through DH’s work but we’ve never used it because barely anything is actually covered under it. You still require the NHS for emergencies for example. We use the library frequently and DC are in state schools.

All I see is a slightly conspiracist take from someone who folds when asked to clarify their view. It's all so tiresome, isn't it, being expected to take other people's views at face value and engage with them. The sheeple. Why don't they all just concede how wrong they are and how uniquely enlightened Clarke is.

Are you really doing this? Deliberately posting rubbish and slop and asking people to take apart that rubbish and slop point by point? Behave. See what I said about a cup of tea? I suggest you do the same.

Ok time to make your mind up because whenever anyone addresses your point you claim you're talking about something else. Here it is, in brief.

You claimed evidence exists to prove that "people know other people that take advantage of the welfare state". It doesn't.

You claimed that there wasn't quality, peer reviewed research on people's attitudes towards benefits and whether those attitudes reflect the actual situation. There is. Loads.
.
You need to be able to keep up and make your points clearly. It's an important skill to have, and avoids people getting so fed up with the shifting sands of your argument that they give up and go and have a cup of tea instead. Like I'm about to.