To be sick of politicians using 'fairness' as justification for tax rises?

Fairness is definitely subjective and yet it is something humans feel extremely strongly about! Look at the estate threads where one sibling is willed more than the other. Both are getting money but the one getting less is more upset than if neither were getting anything.

So politicians are always going to talk and argue about ‘fairness’ in society.

I don’t think any of us (hopefully not anyway) would like to see people starving to death on the streets or dying of easily curable diseases, due to a lack of funds.

Equally, communism doesn’t work as people want to be, and feel it is fair to be, rewarded for their skills and efforts.

So we argue about fairness in between these two poles. The main parties aren’t actually nearly as far apart as most think. It is amazing how vitriolic people can get over the odd 2% difference in total taxation.

And the right wing always notice taxes but fail to notice pro wealth policies such as bank bailouts, too low central bank interest rates, lack of house building, COVID grants and purchases, zero CGT on primary residences and, especially QE.

A lot of bankers would have gone from high six figure take homes to zero had the banks not been bailed out by taxation on far poorer people. And there is no guarantee they would ever have been reemployed at anywhere near the same rate (same goes for City Lawyers and all the wealthy who service the bloated finance sector).

The reality is that, while high earners moan about things like putative wealth and property taxes (the first of which will never, realistically, happen), government policy (not talent!) has served them extremely well over the last quarter of a century. You only need to pull up a graph of income/wealth by quintile/decile to see the difference, and when you look at the top 1% or 0.1% vs the rest, it becomes very extreme.

Realistically, politics is difficult. It is a discussion about priorities, with no obvious wrong or right answer. I also think that the world (tech, especially AI) is changing so fast right now, politicians can’t keep up.

But that doesn’t stop a lot of people being utterly convinced by either right wing or left wing arguments without much to back them up.

Indeed. One we can afford or one where we are in debt up to our ears and can’t afford to contribute to European defence / supporting Ukraine.

Not gas, just electricity.

My tax rate is over 55%, I work less because of it. What good is that?

I can’t get too worked up about it. VAT on energy always felt a bit dubious to me. Not as dubious as the new gov claiming £45 annual savings on a policy that is only currently in place for 6 months though.

Removing VAT on energy is a Tory and Reform policy as well. So if you really didn’t like it, you’d have to vote Lib Dem (although they want to cut energy bills in other ways).

Completely agree. It's the same with benefits for older people. It amazes m e how those pensioners who have barely worked end up claiming pension credit and getting all rent and council tax paid for plus all the ther freebies that come with it yet those that have worked all their lives and receive a small private pension are often ruled out of pension credit. It is one of those most unfair ways that the benefit system works. I'm not lumping those too disabled to have worked or carers in this category. Again and again the benefit system rewards those that have not paid in.

I don’t believe that young adults who can’t get decent jobs are the problem, but overall YANBU.

Many parts of the benefit system feel
unfair which leads to the tax system feeling even more unfair.

I would like to live in a society where people take personal responsibility for their choices .

He’s right that it wasn’t specifically funded.

Gov departments had been told to find savings to fund it. I assume those savings will now be reallocated.

Oh dear.

Spoken like somebody who's never run a business.

Sacked or not, I would be astounded Jones would lie about something that could be fact checked so easily

It’s only until the next budget, and funded by scrapping ID cards. (That is to say, they haven’t ruled out that it will be extended, just that that will need the funding to be looked at again at the next budget).

YANBU in your main point that “fairness” is subjective and therefore isn’t an argument on its own. When people say “because it’s fair”, they need to be pressed on why. Otherwise it’s just a lazy “if you don’t agree with me, you’re not being fair!”

No you’re not.

Dare I say I’ll trust the prime minister over a man who is obviously bitter than he’s just been sacked?

Self employed and businesses pay lower tax than salaried employees. There are loads of tax incentives and advantages for businesses. Assets and wealth are taxed at a far lower rate than income, if at all.

If a small business feels crippled it’s likely that your business simply isn’t profitable and perhaps you should get a job.

Darren Jones has just tweeted that digital ID was unfunded so the money for the VAT cut can't come from there.

Absolutely.
Career politicians seem to have no idea that small to medium size businesses could be the power houses of the nation. Instead we are crippled by legislation and tax.

It’s being paid for from the budget for digital ID, the policy is estimated to cost £850m and the budget for the ID was £1.2 billion

You can never please everyone. I also don’t think you can even imagine how hard some people’s lives are or have been. I don’t mind paying more tax if goes towards helping people in poverty or people living on the streets because our society will improve as a whole. You have to look at the bigger picture.

As my mum would say, it’s better than a poke in the eye with a blunt stick!