To be sick of politicians using 'fairness' as justification for tax rises?

You compared national finances to household finances, when they work in entirely different ways.

What will happen to the £45, where will it go? Will it leave the economy or be used within the economy?

We’re looking for good politicians over here - interested?

At what point do “innocent children” become “feckless adults”?

Can you explain your workings?

I cant see at all how £6.75 of every £10 you earn goes on tax/deductions.

A lot of this must be on deductions which you are choosing to pay.
Is this pensions? Student loan? Other employee scheme?

How much is on tax? Which is really what we are discussing here?

For most purposes they are. There was a brief period around 2021 when people thought governments could just print money and not be constrained by debt limits (modern monetary theory). 2022 proved that idea incorrect.

If you genuinely think my post was poor maths rather than satire it does make me doubt your ability to understand and engage in political discourse

Except it is nothing like that, because national finances don't work in the same way as household finances.

I think it's transparent that your sark landed badly. No, please don't go to the trouble of explaining your poor maths. We can't all be competent at figures.

@Newbutoldfather you’re confusing owners of UK SMEs with founders of listed businesses. A UK SME owner doesn’t have the same options a US tech billionaire does. They almost certainly don’t have access to cheap loans against their equity holdings, and it will be very difficult for their to sell partial stakes in their business at reasonable prices. In reality their options are to pay themselves a salary or take a dividend. The salary option obviously has no tax advantages. The dividend option is lower tax than salary if you ignore corporation tax, but higher tax than a salaried worker if you include it. Whether corporation tax should be counted or not essentially comes down to your political views - left wing people mostly say it shouldn’t, right wing people mostly think it should.

I can explain it if you're struggling?

@illbeyourperfectmrs radio 4 this morning said the money for ID cards was being funded by cuts in spending from other departments so he is correct it’s all just smoke and mirrors on order to immediately “do a thing” 45 quid savings hardly pays for a takeaway

Oh you had one.

But here is the rub. I'm from Canada which most feel is more socialist (just ask Americans). We have universal heathcare and we certainly pay more in taxes BUT things work. We absolutely help people in tough times and to get back on their feet but it isn't indefinite. And the ongoing credits we give are to get them through - not so they can afford holidays etc.

People are happier in Canada (various studies to prove) cause even if we pay more new hospitals are being built, schools aren't crumbling, houses are being built etc.

It strikes me that in the UK people are tired of working hard, paying a lot of tax, not having things work and spending a lot on people who feel they don't have to work or contribute.

Is there social housing in Canada - sure. But it isn't your house. You are given a place to live. You can't buy it below market value and then sell it and make money.

The balance isn't right here and people are tired of that. The continual squeeze of the middle is what really annoys most. Because that always seems to be the answer - squeeze the middle more. Then the argument is 'it isn't a race to the bottom'. No it isn't but there has to be some fairness in working hard and paying for all of those who choose not to.

“Murder, rape, stealing.. all of these things have existed for as long as humans have exited. Does that mean we have to tolerate these things as a society?”

Ultimately we do tolerate them, yes. We punish people after they’ve committed those crimes. We put lots of work into preventing them but they do not entirely stop any of them.

@Newbutoldfather

"And, as you say, you pay corporation tax. I am not an account, but that is 19% for the first 50,000 and 25% after that, way lower than higher rate personal tax."

You realise that I pay the corporation tax for the money that's in the business and then I pay tax on it when I take it out of the business right? So I pay 19-25% CT on profits and then if I take out profits in dividends then I pay tax on that through my self-assessment tax return. Plus tax on whatever I've paid myself via PAYE.

Yes you can decide when and how to take money out of the business in order to be the most tax efficient but the flip side is you have almost no financial security and have to deal with very lumpy income. Plus no sick pay, no holiday pay and no company pension contributions.

You're so close to the point

Your maths isn't too clever.

this is it- the utopia that no one is society lives in a way you disapprove of (disapproval entirely based on whether public funds are involved) is completely unrealistic. You can’t starve out the people whose lives you don’t like. They are part of the human condition.

I know this one woman who's got 18 kids from 25 different dads, she's got 11 boyfriends all of them millionaires, and she gets £500,000 a year in benefits. What is this country coming to eh

One where everyone pulls their weight or one where skivers get their benefits for doing nothing and a handful of professionals work long hours to pay for it

Nope, that's a trope peddled out by the right wing in an attempt to protect those the left actually want to tax.