To be sick of politicians using 'fairness' as justification for tax rises?

These things are almost impossible to definitively prove without either admission from those abusing the system or high level surveillance which is completely impractical. The reality of distinguishing between genuine claimants and chancers is really difficult, especially when people know how to game the system. I know about these young people through their parents who are my friends and are often frustrated with the situation themselves.

Obviously you can choose to disbelieve me and believe that all of the claimants are genuine. I think the poll shows that most people though do agree with me because they also have contact with people like this in their lives. It's not a theoretical concept that needs to be proven to them through studies and research. They have seen enough evidence of it with their own two eyes.

I find it so odd that you want to challenge the concept of 'personal responsibility' as if it's some weird construct designed by the powerful to suppress the poor when in reality it liberates the poor. State dependency is bad for the individual and society and should be avoided wherever possible. You are literally putting yourself at the mercy of every electorate and every subsequent government decision. Encouragingly independence and self reliance is vital

I have literally just come from a thread where a young woman is making a profound life choice that could ultimately lead to a life of dependency on the state for herself and her future child. Many of us have faced similar crossroads before where we are conflicted between what we would ideally like to do and what is sensible and responsible. If we all opt for the latter approach then society ultimately breaks down. How many of us can take advantage of a safety net before it becomes overloaded and begins to snap under the weight of everybody?

I listed them upthread if you can be bothered to find the post. For example 13% of young people are NEETs nationally but this rises to 20% in some areas. Around half of these people claim benefits. I'm from a deprived area so it's statistically likely that I will know a few of these young people (which I do!). I'm not some strange anomaly. I find it more bizarre that people claim to know nobody who is similar to the type of people I describe in my OP. They must be a statistical anomaly or move in small and homogenous circles.

I have seen this often. Posters that seem incredulous that people know other people that take advantage of the welfare state in this way and yet statistics prove they exist. Most of us have friends and relatives like this. Sometimes I believe that some posters believe that if they work to discredit accounts of this then the wider public might be persuaded that it's all some right wing plot. It won't work though because we literally know they exist as we experience them in our daily lives.

One where you get out of life what effort you put in. One where those who absolutely genuinely cannot support themselves through no fault of their own and despite best efforts, get more support than they do now as there are fewer scroungers taking from those who genuinely need state money to live a good way of life.

I want lots of provision for adults with learning disabilities to work in whatever way they can/ volunteer/ have paid for activities in the day so they lead a happy purposeful life. I know two adults in this situation dying to have a little job or volunteer but there isn't the support for them to do it. Access to work scheme support to actually be available for people with visual impairment or cerebral palsy. However currently that money isn't there because Kelly and Jayden have 5 kids and he's too anxious to work and she's got fibromyalgia so they all live off the state.

I'm currently the highest paid person in my company but there have been many times when I've been the lowest (or even not paid myself at all). I work 60+ hours a week and the only holiday I've had this year was a week off in April (and even then I had my laptop with me). I'm taking today off as I worked on Sunday and until 11pm last night.

I've never said I'm crippled by taxation, I've said multiple times in this thread that I'm happy to pay the tax due. However, many business owners have really struggled with the increases in minimum wage, employer NIC etc. (fortunately we can absorb it but ultimately what that means is it comes out of my pay).

Part of the reason people like me do this to themselves (and there are many days when I wish I'd never quit my day job!) is the pride in building something and creating jobs. So I find it extremely annoying when people talk about business owners as if they're freeloaders or tax dodgers.

I suppose it depends what sort of a society we want to live in.

Hilarious - we live in a society where my husband and I get up every morning and go to work and my neighbour does not but earns more than us combined on benefits. Constantly told we are mugs. That is not the society I want to live in.

I'm currently the highest paid person in my company but there have been many times when I've been the lowest (or even not paid myself at all). I work 60+ hours a week and the only holiday I've had this year was a week off in April (and even then I had my laptop with me). I'm taking today off as I worked on Sunday and until 11pm last night.

I've never said I'm crippled by taxation, I've said multiple times in this thread that I'm happy to pay the tax due. However, many business owners have really struggled with the increases in minimum wage, employer NIC etc. (fortunately we can absorb it but ultimately what that means is it comes out of my pay).

Part of the reason people like me do this to themselves (and there are many days when I wish I'd never quit my day job!) is the pride in building something and creating jobs. So I find it extremely annoying when people talk about business owners as if they're freeloaders or tax dodgers.

One where hard work is rewarded and people understand that the benefits system should exist as a safety net and not a lifestyle, where saving is not penalised and where personal responsibility is encouraged. A million miles from where we currently are it would seem…

Hilarious - we live in a society where my husband and I get up every morning and go to work and my neighbour does not but earns more than us combined on benefits. Constantly told we are mugs. That is not the society I want to live in.

Indeed there aren't. And many of the lower-paid, minimum-wage jobs fall within the realms of precarious employment.

Take my recent graduate for example. He is taking a year out to save for his Masters. He found a retail job. 16 hours a week. He'd rather work full-time but it's better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick. Every week he is given his rota. Sometimes he gets his contracted 16 hours, sometimes more. What is absolutely consistent is the inconsistency. The hours and days he works change every week - he can be rota'd to work on any day of the week, and at any time between 8am and 8pm. It would be impossible to work a second job to increase his earnings because what other employer is going to employ someone who has no idea of their availability.

As it happens he has been promoted and now has more hours and more pay. But had he not been living with his generous parents and was needing to support himself or a family, he would be needing support from the state. Not because he's feckless or lazy but because that sort of precarious employment is commonplace.

I suppose it depends what sort of a society we want to live in.

It is not defeatist to say that not everyone is going to be employed. There are not enough jobs out there.

They aren't dodging tax. By being cash only they can launder money easily.

As my mum would say, it’s better than a poke in the eye with a blunt stick!

Quite. We have 24 barbers shop in my nearest large town. Most take cash only. Ditto nail bars. Raid and raid again. Yet they are still here, still taking cash only

You tax their assets, which are in the UK- why do people assume income tax is the only kind of tax?

You at 14.48 today.

"We have around 150 billionaires in the UK. Of those, most only have £1 billion. Very few people are hoarding billions in the UK. We lost 20 of them in the past 4 years so the number of billionaires is dropping quote significantly. What happens if they leave?"