DP sexual punishment or am I boring?

Another abuser apologist 🙄

"You both need to grow up."

OP is NOT responsible for how this gonna-be-rapist fucker behaves.

Your attributing blame to OP for his abhorrent sexually coercive behaviour is fucking GROTESQUE

This doesn't sound normal, do you realise that OP? If a man is cuddling a woman just out the shower, in my experience it would just be a consenting cuddle. If you both wanted more it could go that way; if you needed to get dressed and get on then you'd say that and he would understand. It's not typical to consider spending then rest of your life with someone and also be worrying about your towel slipping low. But also, who wears a dress but no knickers if it's hot? Very odd and I live in a hot country! It's also not normal to ask for nude images or videos - well done for not consenting to that. You both need to grow up.

Agree, agree.

And also

He literally forced her into positions so that he could look at her vulva. He did it with physical FORCE. And he did it TWICE, after she had made it clear the first time that she did not consent to it the FIRST time.

He didn't force her into that position to look at her vulva (he's possibly not that interested in how it looks) - he did it because he knew it made her feel vulnerable, and he knew she didn't like it or want it, and she struggled, and he could overcome her.

That is sick.

Dump him your obviously not confident in this relationship and he sounds into things your not. It won’t work long term. I certainly wouldn’t invest in a house with this man.

@diabolicalbanana

^"I am wondering about abusive men, are they abusive to every woman they get in a relationship with as in is this him now for life with anyone he’s with? I’m his only ever long term relationship and person he’s gone this far with in terms of living together I’m just wondering because for so many years I would never conceive of him acting like this, so is it something in me that’s triggered this or something innate in him that’s showing up?"^

Oh sweetheart, this is one of the saddest things I have read. There are pages and pages of well informed, knowledgeable, professional posts - all screaming that this man's behaviour is abusive and dangerous. Yet here you are wondering whether this is all YOUR fault.

No it is not.

You have not triggered this. You have been conditioned, by your previous relationship history to believe that bad consequences are your fault. They are not. They never were. Sadly this man is building on that vulnerability.

You absolutely need to get out now.

But how do you do this? I'll be honest I don't know any 'good men' that I'd be happy being in a relationship with. Not saying I don't think there are any, but I don't know any and not sure how I'd go about collecting them?

You're not wrong to feel the way you do OP

THIS is a massive red flag. You are clearly putting up sexual boundaries and he is trying to overstep them and then going in a mood if you don’t let him have his own way. A loving partner would NOT DO THIS. Please, please ditch this creep before he actually rapes you because he sounds like he is cruising towards abuse. He doesn’t respect your boundaries and deserves no more of your time. Not all men act like this. You can find a nice one!

So much good advice on here OP;please don't waste it. Think about how you feel now and imagine that when you are pregnant or with small child being magnified 100 times. This man is subjecting you to sexual abuse and taking no consideration of what you say you want or what you need. How can you ever trust him again?

Sometimes we get the wrong impression that everyone is having and giving oral sex, anal sex, cumming on your face, swallowing etc. Its really not the case. Do not send nudes- lots of people don't. This man would threaten to send the far and wide. You really cannot trust him. He does not believe in consent and will always try and wriggle around like a worm when he attempts to convince you that you are no fun, take things too seriously.

There is something about what you describe that brings to mind those vile men who drug their wives and pimp them out to other men.

Him getting an eyeful of your vulva and not being apologetic at your discomfort because it 'was your own fault' is vile. I think lots of men would be devestated at your reaction because they would not want to cause their partner embarrassment of pain. It doesn't matter that some other PP seem to think this is a surprise because all that is important is that you felt uncomfortable.

He has never had a long term relationship, not just for his anger and emotional unavailability but for lots of reasons. Its entirely possible that his refusal to accept the importance of consent may be one of them.

What you felt, what you've said are not unreasonable; he is.

I would get rid of him, and not look back in my quest to find a decent man to share my love, body and life with.

I have a few select men (all happily married and I wouldn’t consider them romantically), but they are my go to when I need to be reminded there are good men out there.
Maybe you need to collect a select few. I’m not interested in another relationship but then I’ve had kids, and am very happy in my own space

Read most of the thread.
OP, I mean this kindly. If you believe that if this relationship ends, that you will never be able to trust another man, you have got work to do.
Staying with this poor excuse of a man is never going to contribute to any healing for you.
You will spend the rest of this relationship doubting yourself and apologising for speaking up for yourself, and slowly, gradually, you will lose sight of who you are and what you want, in favour of not upsetting him.

You held a boundary and instead of him responding respectfully, he continued to push you to do things you are not comfortable with, for his own pleasure.

Ask yourself this.
Could you push him to do things that made him cringe for your own pleasure? And would you call that love?

He treats you like a pushover who will forgive him if he squeezes long enough.

Women who have previously been in abusive relationships tend to have a lot of self doubt, prize keeping the peace over standing their ground and apologise or withdraw to avoid conflict.
Abusers prefer women who doubt themselves, want to sweep shit under the carpet and apologise for the abusers bad behaviour. They like you to be confused so they get off scot free.

Most women, whether they have been in abusive relationships or not will come across cocktopuses like this, but the cocktopus wont be given multiple chances by all of those women.
The women that give him another chance and then another and another are the women who unfortunately get the poor treatment, because the man isnt going to change and the woman continues to hope he will.

You are allowed to refuse anything you dont want to do. You shouldn't let anyone talk you into doing anything you dont feel comfortable doing. It doesnt matter if it makes sense to him, his family, your family, your friends, his friends.
How can you feel safe with this man? I imagine you don't!

My best advice?
Do not buy a house with this man!
Do not back down on anything you feel uncomfortable with.
Do not accept his pathetic excuse that he was joking.
Do not stay in this relationship.
Invest in yourself. Do things you enjoy.
Make sure you prioritise feeling safe in a relationship, and if you don't, end it!

I did think at first it was strange that you felt ashamed of your body in front of him, but then your previous relationship and that he tries to do things/get you to do things you are not comfortable with explains it. If he really cared about you he would understand that due to previous abuse certain things are triggering for you and he would want to make you feel as comfortable as possible.

I also feel a bit uncomfortable that you have shared personal messages because of troll hunting. You do not owe anyone on MN anything. If people troll hunt just report the messages and MNHQ will deal with it. It seems to be another way you allow your boundaries to be crossed.

You have been concerned as to if your boundaries are 'normal' but it doesn't matter how others would feel, your feelings are your feelings and deserve respect. You have a right to not consent to things others would be fine with.

I don't think this man is the right one for you. And it seems the more you try and put in boundaries the more he pushes.

I think you need to end this relationship and learn to love yourself before entering another relationship. You seem very vulnerable and need some real life support. Good luck, OP 🌷

OP, I am so glad you came on to MN for some help. (Although I really hope you're able to ignore the victim-blamers who are somehow finding fault with you for minding when your consent for various sexual things has not been given and he does it anyway, and then wants YOU to apologise for upsetting HIM. You really couldn't make it up.)

I hope you listen to us women who have seen it all before, who know how abuse goes and how it just gets worse and worse and worse the deeper into the relationship you go. And mark my words, nothing you do or say stops it.

You indicated above that it's not that easy to let him go, because you know each other's families etc. - and I get it. You also have a store of good memories and good times. You're still enmeshed to an extent, even though you don't have a mortgage or kids or are married (thank GOD).

So in one way, it's not an easy thing to leave the relationship....but in another way, it's the easiest thing in the world. Put your big-girl Nikes on and Just Do It.

Another word about abusive relationships: The entire reason they are so hard to leave is because of all the masses of sugar mixed in with the shit. The good times, the amazing memories, the times when he was so so lovely. After all, if someone was awful to you all the time, it would be an easy decision, wouldn't it? And this is what makes domestic abuse so appalling and destructive and so totally confusing for the victim. With someone who's just awful to you, it's upfront and you know where you are. But with domestic abuse, you are literally sleeping with the enemy. It's an extremely insidious, nasty, covert form of emotional, social, and/or physical aggression.

But you have to judge your relationship on its worst times. The times he has done things physically when you didn't want him to and when he wanted YOU to apologise for being upset. (My God, this makes me so mad, I literally want to slap him for you.) Those things which are upsetting you? THAT'S your relationship, your REAL relationship. That's the real him, not the nicey-nice one who lured you into this relationship under false pretences in the first place. That is, the pretence that a relationship with him would be a safe and nurturing place for you.

To put another way, a sugar sandwich with a tiny piece of shit in it's still a shit sandwich.

God, I hope you find the strength to dump this MF. I really, really do.

P.S. I am experienced with break-ups, and the absolute fastest way to get over someone is to have zero contact. No staying friends, no texting etc. I'm not saying getting over a significant relationship is ever fast, but zero contact is by far the best way. With zero contact, you'll find he crosses your mind ever less frequently, and when he does, your mind will kind of slip off him. But continued contact, of any kind, does nothing but prolong the agony. You can always say hi in the future if you want, but give it at least a year with nothing.

He sounds dreadful. Sorry but it’ll only get worse if you stay with him

It’s obvious to all AND obvious to you… he’s a big red flying flag…! Sort out the deposit and get far away from him NOW! 🤗

He's hardly a DP is he? Why are you with him?
The answer lies with you.

OP I just want to respond to this as you appear on the point of blaming yourself for having 'provoked' his abusive behaviour. Sorry if everything has been said on that point, I don't have time to read all responses to this post of yours.

'Was this innate or have I caused this?' is a wrong alternative. He probably was socialised into this, not born this way. And even if he evolved into someone more abusive than he had been during his time with you, that doesn't mean it's because of you. And even if there is a dynamic between you that brings out the worst in him, that doesn't mean it's your doing.

My father was an abusive prick with my mother, an absolute swine. He later married again and was still flawed in that relationship, but (afaik) less nasty. And he wasn't born a prick, he had empathy and some idea of right and wrong, but he let his prick-ness run away with him and became worse and worse because he couldn't face how awfully he was behaving, so he had to make it my mother's fault. My mother, meanwhile, didn't help herself by persisting in taking him seriously way beyond the point when he'd become ridiculous.

Point being, you're not responsible for his behaviour, whether it is innate or context-bound, and it doesn't matter how complex his motivations are, if he's being a prick then he's a prick. You can only control your own actions; focus on that. And maintain standards; don't make excuses for repeated crossings of red lines.

I agree that your boyfriend’s behaviour was unacceptable, but I don’t actually think most women would have a problem with their partner seeing any part of them naked, let alone seeing them without makeup.
What most people do or feel is irrelevant. This is about Ops feelings.
If she is not confident and not happy to do something, she has the final word.

Every word of this. Continue this relationship and commit further and I guarantee you this coercive sexual behaviour will escalate massively because it's so much harder for you to get out once tied in.

It's not just his behaviour. It's his infantile attitude towards you and the relationship. Very transactional and nasty.

Fuck no. Bin now and find an actual man.

"This poster has had her legs held forcibly open, twice, and her abuser has tried to make HER apologise to HIM for it, and we have posters who are telling her that she's the problem and has issues with sex?????"

Yes, the comments here are fucking RIDICULOUS!

He literally forced her into positions so that he could look at her vulva. He did it with physical FORCE. And he did it TWICE, after she had made it clear the first time that she did not consent to it the FIRST time.

AND he kept trying to push his penis near her face after she made it clear that she did NOT consent to being jizzed on.

This guy is a sex pest and an about-to-be rapist.

NO ONE should be talking about compatibility here - this man is CLEARLY sexually coercive.

He basically thinks you are his property to twist and look at like a doll. Dump. Now.

You should never ever take compromising pics or videos. Once sent you have no control over them and have no idea whether he shares with his friends or not. And if he's insisting he's an absolute dick .... and this coming from a man!!

Exactly! Thank you!

This poster has had her legs held forcibly open, twice, and her abuser has tried to make HER apologise to HIM for it, and we have posters who are telling her that she's the problem and has issues with sex????? You couldn't fucking make it up. OP, I DO hope you don't listen to a word of some of these posters.

And yes, they all need to watch the tea and consent video and learn it by heart. 😡🤬

Those PP are entirely missing the point that OP didn't WANT to do that stuff in that moment, I am VERY VERY sure that if the PP who telling her that she has issues with sex and shouldn't be in a relationship would also VERY MUCH NOT LIKE IT if THEIR legs were held open when they DIDN'T WANT THEM TO BE!

God it’s terrifying that women are STILL telling other women to lower their boundaries. It doesn’t matter what they think they’re doing: if they think the OP is being prudish or not. They are just not getting the point and at this stage when there is so much information out there about consent then no one should be watering down the messages.

It doesn’t matter if you’re a naturist permanently. It’s not about whether you are naked or not. It’s about whether you feel comfortable and wholly enthusiastic in a sexual situation. I could for instance have had my partner touch my breast and be enthusiastic about it thousands of times. But if I’m not in the mood that day then he should listen to me. Not try and talk me round or do it anyway.

OP seriously this man does not have healthy sexual boundaries. He is a really bad person for you to be around. I rarely say this because it’s your life not mine but seriously LTB. And whatever you do don’t buy a house with him because I fear he would escalate if he thought you were trapped. I think he gets off on humiliating you, which is dangerous.