To ask why people think it’s okay to abuse NHS staff?

I don’t think the PP is asking for medical information about staff, merely and apology and explanation. E.g. ‘I’m sorry, Mrs Jones cannot see you tomorrow as she is no longer in clinic. We understand this is causing you and/or your family inconvenience/lost money and stress. Can you come in on x date instead?”

You seem to have a ‘them v us’ attitude towards patients. At least twice on this thread you have jumped on posters, seemingly misunderstanding what they are saying. I appreciate it’s probably been a long, hot day and you have been insulted by the patient Maybe some time away from your customer facing role would help? Cutting patients some slack when they are under pressure (and experiencing all the other negative things others have mentioned) might be a good idea too.

I’m sorry you were insulted. I don’t think anybody thinks this is okay.

Being insulted and abused is not okay.

Patients may be otherwise ‘rude,’ giving frustrated opinion on the service they are not receiving, navigating delay, cancellation or indifference and not being listened to, facing unhelpful staff attitudes, apathy and not actually being cared for. Patients should remain calm and respectful. Staff should have empathy and professionalism.

With the NHS as underfunded and poor as it is, staff should anticipate there will be some level of ‘rudeness’ and complaint and have more training to help them deal with this. (I repeat that personal insults and abuse are not acceptable.) There seems to be a lack of understanding at what some patients have endured, certainly by some posters here, who clearly have no direct experience of the frustrations some patients are talking about. I doubt the OP has a clear idea of what the unpleasant patient is currently going through. People are not generally abusive, but most of us have our tipping point. If you waited over two hours in a restaurant for your order to be taken and the waitress then just shrugged her shoulders and said others had been waiting longer, would you not complain? If the waitress told you that you now needed to change tables and begin your wait all over again, because the table you had been shown to was now for a different type of customer, wouldn’t you be a little bit mad?

I have recent experience with the NHS.

My mother’s care was woefully inadequate. She died. I regret that I didn’t start shouting sooner and was too polite, naively thinking that someone would eventually give a shit. They did not. I didn’t understand that no-one actually took any responsibility for my mum’s care.

My care has been mixed. Some departments and staff have been excellent and I am grateful. Some departments (and unfortunately staff too) are failing miserably. It is largely systemic failure, but offen staff viewed through a patient’s eyes can appear rude and uncaring too.

Having worked for the nhs for over twenty years I remind myself that I choose to walk through those doors every single day and that I'm being paid for the privilege too.patients and relatives are often facing fear,pain,uncertainty and frustration at a sometimes dysfunctional service so I understand that I may not get to see their best side...strangely enough I can count of the fingers of one hand the times I've been subjected to rudeness or abuse !...

two words: fucking rude.

we can’t . But had to put up with threats of complaints and being told I’d have ro pay for re piercing and it was stupid and I was being mean because she’s ’alternative ‘. I’m honestly a nice polite person and in 40 years of health service never had a complaint but people can be really personally abusive .

I have never abused staff of any employer.

But we are animals with a pain and fear response. The four times I've been to a&e recently (for myself, and my toddler with breathing difficulties), I've been treated with rudeness and indifference by various staff.

And I was being polite and helpful as a patient. One woman misheard the surname I gave, couldn't find my son's record, then told me "it would have helped if I had said that in the first place" when I politely corrected her. Is that any way to treat a parent worried out of their mind about their sick child at 3am, when it was your mistake in the first place?

By the end of a six hour wait to be seen myself, I'd sat with nurses bitching about their colleagues, I'd been ignored when I collapsed to the floor in pain, and that was on top of the existing pain and sickness I was feeling.

That's before you get to the shit show of pregnancy, when my consultant bitched to me about the poor nurse, complaining that she "just wanted to go home".

Not everybody was like that - paramedics have always been kind in my experience. I had a laugh with a few of the nurses.

But even if you're good staff, patients generally have to wade through an army of wankers to get to you. It sucks, but that's because the NHS sucks.

Some people think it’s ok to abuse any staff. It’s not, obviously. Notjing special about the NHS though. 🤷‍♀️

Say well we cant scan you then

Because it is polite to apologise for changing appointments, causing a patient to rearrange their commitments, cancel or rebook annual leave, etc. And yes, I book a half day for a 9.30/10am appointment, because I get too stressed otherwise about being late back, when I am kept waiting for 90 minutes

I am sorry if you think that's entitled and you must step away from the thread but I think you are badly in the wrong here.

Cheerio.

You are not ‘entitled’ to an explanation about medical staff’s health issues or any other personal matter. And why should they apologise? Do you apologise for being ill?
I’m stepping away from this thread in disgust so don’t bother responding.

And when other professionals cancel you at short notice, they make a real attempt to "fit you in" as soon as possible thereafter. Whereas with the NHS, you're just put back in the queue at the mercy of the appointments clerk to give you a new appointment several weeks or months away, regardless of the urgency or how long you've already waited.

This. A lot of the general public suck. You should see how people can throw a paddy over the temperature of a sausage roll.

I’m currently on my third call to try and find out about an appointment that has been arranged for my son. I got a text this morning reminding me about it and instructing me to call the number on the letter. I don’t have a letter, so round and round all the different departments I go.

I have nothing planned today, and there is nothing serious going on with my son, so this is nothing more than a mild annoyance and I’ve been nothing but polite to everyone I have spoken to.

I can understand why the situation I am in today could easily upset someone who is calling about their child with cancer, for example, and how being passed around departments, with no one able to answer a simple question, could push them to their limit.

I also understand that some people are arseholes and that this is something that anyone in a public facing role has to deal with - which doesn’t make it okay, it’s just not NHS specific.

I will, however, never forget the way I was treated and spoken to on the post natal ward following the birth of each of my children, or the way I was spoken to over the telephone when I had to call the maternity ward following my discharge due to a suspected DVT. I can well understand how treating people, when they are at their most vulnerable, as nothing more than an absolute pain in your arse and as a serial nuisance, both in person and over the telephone, can result in people lashing out.

I don't think they sound unreasonable.

If appointments are late running, an apology and explanation are required. That's basic good manners.

It's understandable if a Dr has to cancel a clinic due to their own meducal emergency but it doesn't mean there shouldn't be an apology. If I have an NHS apt, the letter contains a stern warning about being taken off the list if an appointment is missed and how much a missed apt costs the NHS. However the same level of concern does not work in reverse. That's where the NHS gets it so badly wrong.

Yes, who else's fault would it be?

Every professional makes mistakes of course, but it's usually more forgiveable if the original advice isn't delivered in an arrogant way.

You do sound unreasonable.
Maybe your appointment was pushed back because there were more urgent cases? Maybe the GP had a sick child or was ill themselves that morning .
My OH had an urgent biopsy appointment and had to cancel his morning clinic and yes he got flack from his rebooked patients. He’s a human being for goodness sake.

You still got care, again I go back to the 5 star service attitude.
It’s also not possible to have a hospital within a 5 mile radius for everyone.

Healthcare is largely seen as "women's work" and as such is considered low status, thus some people feel justified in treating workers in abusive ways. It isn't the same as other industries as had been said by pps. No one is punching a builder if they don't immediately get what they feel they need. They save that for nurses and healthcare workers.

Quite appalling behaviour. It is never ok to abuse anyone, let alone our wonderful NHS staff.
I’m so sorry this happened to you and this person does not deserve his free healthcare. They should take that off repeat offenders, that would soon teach them!

Why do the surgeries think this is acceptable. They give you a time and then dont bother keeping to it. I agree that some people cannot be bothered to use an online form. They dont trust it. I had reason a few weeks ago to use it and it did work very quickly. They did clearly have someone on it and hopefully all day (not something they look at when the staff have time!)

No this is all over. I locummed for a few years. Deprived areas are worse. Some practices just stank of weed all day long. Lots of neglected pets unfortunately, a fair few end up being reported to the RSPCA. I've seen some horrific cases.
Not every pet has a caring owner unfortunately.

I had a blood yest this morning and while I was in the waiting room (about ten mins) the receptuonists had about half a dozen interractions and every one was about how to use the NHS app or glitches with it. Perhaps humans need to come back front and centre.

Also the telephone apts. I have a professional job. A three hour window doesn't work so I wait for a F2F apt for the GP to say "oh this could have been done on the phone" and then to look gobsmacked when I say "yes but a f2f takes 45 mins out of my diary, for a phone apt, I have to block three hours. That doesn't work for me because my time is important too".

I really wish people who work in the NHS would begin to understand that not all of the public has nothing better to do. Perhaps Andy Burnham may get someone to calculate the impact of lost working time on GDP.

I agree with this. It’s what passes for feeling ‘alive’. Rather than empathy, compassion and deeper thinking. But it’s their ‘right’ [entitlement] to feel like this and expect everyone support it.

I fully grasp the complexity of medicine and don't expect instant solutions or answers. But it has shocked me during my inpatient stay to be treated like an object they extract information from with no feedback or explanation.
I spent my hospital stay reading a book about black holes so I was fully alert and capable of digesting any information relayed to me but no one was telling me information or giving me a chance to ask questions. Thankfully I gleaned enough from my own knowledge/googling to work out a fair amount of what was going on. This meant I was able to do a Martha's Rule escalation when the weekend staff weren't administering the meds or doing the tests they were meant to have been doing every 4 hours.

Knowledge, even caveated and conditional, helps us take care of ourselves and helps us advocate for ourselves.

Me speaking up has saved the NHS having me as an inpatient for several more days at best /having a costly deterioration on their hands

I think what has happened is that for some people the NHS is free of charge. They really pay very little to supoort it.

The people are working for them (even though the people shouting their mouths off are being subsided by others!).

This has resulted in the NHS turning in on themselves. The service is run for them i.e GP telephone appointments. Its much easier for a GP to just have a list of phone numbers to call regardless of what time your appointment was. I was told I had a 1000 appointment and was called at 1245. My role can enable me to take this nonsense. Other roles, teachers, supermarket workers, people who had to attend meetings are not so lucky.

Another example is trying to get as many people as possible into one big hospital. Much easier for the NHS. Issue is that my nearest hospital is 50 mins drive away. The parking is truly shite and your appointment card tells you to leave 1 HOUR to find a car parking space.