Autism vs trans - clashing views

It's unreasonable to conflate bullying with just not pretending to go along with someone elses belief system.

Running up to an overweight kid and calling them fat is bullying, declining to use their chosen nicknane of "Skinny Tom" isn't.

Yes it's deeply unpleasant, harmful and intolerant to coercively abuse children into participating in a fantasy and gaslight them into pretending reality isn't real.

Thankfully OPs son can't be forced to tolerate such bullying and abuse.

Could it help to explain that he very much is allowed to debate gender change just not in a way that would seem to target this one child?

I don’t know whether you could have a safe space at home to have a debate with him, maybe look through a few articles from
both sides, and maybe try to help him see that thinking something and manifesting it in a way which upsets people are different? And that no one is trying to change how he thinks, or make the choice for him, but this could have consequences for him at school.

I would say let him see this thread but unless you want “abusive and coercive” thrown at you every 5 minutes and all communication ending with “HTH” I’d probably avoid it…

Maybe he just needs to avoid this person, he can't be compelled to speak to or be friends with another child if he doesn't want to.

So much unpleasantness and intolerance on this thread.

I am a teacher who doesn’t buy into the trans ideology in schools and finds it harmful. I have refused to teach it in PSHE. This is not because I don’t think trans people should exist, it’s because I know that most children who express a desire to change gender are neurodivergent, and I don’t think it’s responsible for us to teach these children that their feeling of not belonging in the world can be fixed by them changing gender.

That being said, I think that respect and tolerance for others’ differences is central to us being human. If people want to live as if they are the opposite gender and wish to adopt a new name, then I will respect that and call them by whatever they want. Trans people do exist and they deserve dignity and respect just as much as anyone else. Accepting and respecting someone else’s reality is not the same as agreeing with the ideology behind it and this is what the OP’s son needs to understand.

At the same time, the school and the child in question need to understand that for a neurodivergent person, it is a struggle to wrap their head around the cognitive dissonance, so respect and tolerance of that need to go both ways. If there are issues around this at school, OP, then you need to be letting them know that your son is really struggling because he can’t understand the logic and you expect him to be supported and protected from this student if there are claims of bullying. At the same time, he needs to learn to live in the world and this won’t be the first gender questioning person he comes across, so giving him the tools to manage the situation rather than just agreeing with him that he doesn’t have to try to use the child’s
preferred mode of address is going to be most helpful to him in the long run.

Why is he not allowed to debate or question gender change? Has he been told that by school?

Apologies for not reading the whole thread, but if you haven’t already, I would get knowledgeable on the latest Keeping Children Safe In Education document, as well as the latest RSHE guidance. Both are statutory from 1 September.

Your son’s sex realist beliefs are protected under Equality Act.

No one in school should be forced to pretend children (or teachers) are the opposite sex.

Fortunately it's not bullying to refuse to be coercively bullied into lying about reality. So nothing to worry about there.

Support your child to continue believing in reality and tell the parents they cannot police other people's speech.

There is an extremely high chance that the trans child is also autistic. They are probably quite a vulnerable individual who obviously has a lot going on in their head. They will inevitably be a target for bullying. Most will misgender them because they will be entertained by the reaction they get. Do you want your child to join in with that bullying behaviour? If not, tell him to use the preferred pronouns or don't use pronouns and get on with his life. He isn't that scientific if he thinks surgery can change your sex.

Just because you and your son don't agree with a child wanting to transition, it doesn't mean that the child shouldn't be treated with compassion.

They can do whatever they want to support their child, but the cannot insist other people must lie and buy into delusion.

This just isn’t correct- trans people are protected from discrimination. Google it or read the Supreme Court judgment (which no doubt is “abusive and coercive” in its very existence if you don’t believe me).

And for “fantasist” see “confused and upset 12 year old” and “coercive bully” read “parents who are trying to help their child.” Even if you don’t agree with them, surely you can see that there might be shades of grey here for the trans child and their family. And the child is 12 so deserving of a bit of help and empathy, not just being shunned, and ignored. Do you know ANY trans people or families with trans kids trying to work through it?

Writing HTH does not miraculously remedy an incorrect, dismissive and badly put post, it just makes you look passive- aggressive.

No, the child isn't being bullied according to the OPs post. The parents, who are attempting to coercively bully the other children into participating in their fantasy, are attempting DARVO by pretending that using correct sex pronouns is bullying. But, of course, it's not.

Using the name is the only compromise necessary. Attempting to coercively bully a child into pretending reality isn't real is abuse.

Do not tell me what I know. Having an autistic child that has been both bullied and abused I know what bullying and abuse is ( which this absolutely is not)and also how important it is to support autistic children through difficult situations.

Your HTH is really rather purile.

You might just have to let this unfold @sunshine244 how it does.

You say your son has accepted the other child’s new name, that there are already a group of bullies towards the trans boy not using he/him, so as far as the trans child’s parents are concerned that is bullying.

You might just have to let this play out and your son might be perceived as one of the bullies. Or it might blow over.

You can calmly say in the parents WhatsApp chat that your son struggles with changes and is very black and white on this topic being autistic.

Society used to believe that homosexuality could be cured, we now know through brain research that attraction is fixed in a part of the brain and it’s just there regardless. In time, and it does take time because you need trans people to donate their bodies to medical research when they die and there hasn’t been enough of those yet, we may discover that there is a part of the brain that is boy/girl and sometimes a boy brain ends up in a girl body, who knows?

In life we all have to nod along with things we very much do not believe. That is just something we all have to do and that isn’t going to change for autistic individuals.

If you can teach/persuade your son over the summer holidays that nodding along, accepting a pronoun regardless of his beliefs, might be the easiest way to navigate this rather than him potentially being wound up and distracted by it.

Yes this could get very messy.
Yes your son could end up being the scapegoat if more children “side with” trans boy.

As you can see it’s a loaded topic, if your son is popular in school, people follow his lead, has a big crew around him, he might be able to carry off not using preferred pronouns. But could easily be the one on the sidelines saying she’s not a he alone.

Teenagers are fickle and nasty sometimes.

And trans boy might change their mind again, it might be because the girl was getting unnecessary attention as a girl and has decided it will be better to go through secondary school as a boy.

It’s easier to shrug and say he regardless of personal belief, this isn’t a black and white topic, applying black and white thinking doesn’t apply. There will be other autistic teens who do just accept the change of pronoun. Because that’s the point everyone is different. And in these situations playing to society norms (smile politely and play along) might be the best option.

Well, naturally. Because you think reality is dependant on your whims. It's not.

HTH

Yes, of course coercively bullying a child into pretending reality doesn't exist to pander to a fantasy is abuse.

But you already know that.

HTH.

In addition, the assumption in your post is that all young people who adopt trans identities are ‘trans’ (which I take to mean people with life long settled sex dysphoria) when in reality many will not be. And some of those will go on to medically transition which will make their life harder.

Children with gender incongruence need proper therapeutic support to help them deal with their problems and issues. Not affirmation of the coping method that they have stumbled across. Maladjusted coping methods make things worse long term.

No it is not, it mocks those who have experienced bullying and abuse.

And you can put HTH on the end of as many posts as you like but it doesn’t change reality and looks rather silly.

Nah. Avoiding a fantasist whose parents are harmful coercive bullies who want compliance for their fantasy is perfectly legal, ethical and correct. HTH.

It doesn’t help actually because I respectfully disagree with you.

The amount of posters accusing others of bullying a child while encouraging the OP to advise her son to completely shun and ignore another child is absolutely wild.

Yes and the Supreme Court did make it clear that trans people are protected in their own right under the Equality Act, so deliberately excluding them or discriminating against them in other ways is illegal. This very much could include refusing to work with them, excluding them from conversation etc. If I did this at work I’d get sacked.

Plus in school setting it seems to be virtually impossible to completely avoid another child in exactly the same year group. Even if they are in a different class, what if they have to work together in drama, or get sat together in maths? The OP’s son needs a way to work through this.

And can anyone imagine suggesting doing this to a 12yr old who thought they might be gay?

Yes, of course coercively bullying a child into pretending reality doesn't exist to pander to a fantasy is abuse.

HTH.