Autism vs trans - clashing views

Surely he is only going to be using her pronouns when he talks about her, not to her. So if he doesnt talk about her then no need, although others might be talking about her and then use 'him/he' and it will be a puzzle as to who they're talking about

Best use the name only perhaps

However no child should be lying about stuff like this or forced to lie.

I refused to use a colleagues preferred pronouns but used their new name instead. That is the nearest thing to a best compromise.

Unless the name is totally gender neutral, this is no different to using pronouns, and aren’t you still “engaging in the fantasy” on one level?

Honestly the way I see it is that trans people will not cease to exist and nor (in the vast majority of cases) would I want them to. I don’t believe that by calling yourself a woman you become a woman, but I also don’t believe that all trans people are evil abusers who are intent on making womens’ lives miserable. Many trans people are just trying to get on with their lives and, yes, working through some issues. So if they want me to use a particular pronoun and that makes life a bit easier for them/ doesn’t affect me, then I will.

Explaining this sort of attitude (which is held by many) is not abusive in the slightest.

Your dogwhistle to ableism notwithstanding, you are aware your comment is not actually relevant of course.

If he was expected to call her Mr Brown, pretend she's a man and deny reality that would be coercive bullying, disrespectful and harmful to the OPs child .

But you already know that.

If his teacher got married and wanted to be called Mrs Smith instead of Ms Brown, he would learn it and be expected to call her by the right name. He might think that taking a mans name and changing your title is outdated, lies in a patriarchal trend, where men 'owned women and married women were then the property of the man's family. But he might decide not to be a dick and do it anyway. Your son is going to come across people who are not like him his whole life and he needs to learn this. Does he know there are people who think autism doesnt exist?

You are not respecting other people by telling them they have to lie and adopt the language and rules of a belief system they don’t share.

All you have done is decided one group matters more than another and has the right to force others to submit to their beliefs and practices.

You really aren’t the tolerant one.

Tolerance is living your life, your way but not expecting others to adopt that too.

And most schools will allow people to choose pronouns. In the same way that my workplace and many others do. Plus nothing the Supreme Court said goes against this- that ruling was all about the meaning of woman in the Equality Act. It specifically didn’t go into use of pronouns and personal choice.

But this is why I have suggested to the OP that she should speak to the school and ask them exactly what their policy is and what kids have been asked to do.

Get a grip. Verbal abuse won't change reality. It's abusive and dangerous to coercively bully children into participating in a fantasy.

End.

Having been in the position OPs son is, I can assure you are not offering a sensible or respectful position. It is extremely coercive and damaging to someone to ‘advise’ them ( and it is coercive to advise he should lie about what he sees and knows to be true) to lie by using ‘chosen’ pronouns. Being forced to say things that you know are not true is damaging. Bullies understand well that forcing people to say and do things is a form of humiliating control over someone. It is a form of humiliation to be socially required to buy into a belief system you know is wrong by using pronouns your eyes and ears know are wrong. . It’s disturbing to realise individuals and institutions expect this. How can you ever trust them on anything again?

And I am not even autistic. I imagine it will hit OP’s son even harder.

I refused to use a colleagues preferred pronouns but used their new name instead. That is the nearest thing to a best compromise.

Get a grip. No matter what our personal views are, trans people exist in the world and deserve the same respect as everyone else. Children (autistic or not) need to learn to live in the world with other people and not be dickheads.

I’d argue that failing to teach your children tolerance of other people and the way they choose to live their lives is deeply harmful.

How is this being “enforced”. And the “reality” of the OP’s son is that he’s been asked by a classmate to refer to them as “she” and knows he probably will get into quite a bit of trouble if he wilfully refuses. He’s not being asked to accept this in his own mind, no one here is the thought police, he’s being asked not to wilfully offend the child and follow what he’s been asked to do by the school.

Encouraging him to take a particular stance on pronouns at this age instead of explaining different ways to think about it (so he can make up his own mind) is ridiculously immature and I would say incredibly unhelpful to a young person who is autistic and might need a bit of help negotiating this situation sensibly. Rather than repetitive alarmist rants about “abuse.”

But the trans kid calls your by the correct name?
Suck it up.. autistic or not.

Tell him to avoid the kid completely and have nothing to do with it. No talking about the kid, no referring to the kid, no interacting with the kid, nothing at all.

I have done this before. I'm not participating in someone's fantasy and endorsing a damaging and dangerous illusion, but at the same time I don't want to be cancelled or villified. So just ignore and avoid the person completely.

This!

Great. Another trans bashing thread. When are Mumsnet going to do something about this? And before I get a pile on, it very much is trans bashing.

teach your child respect and kindness and use their preferred name.

Enforcing wrong sex pronouns is abuse. Insisting a child lie and deny reality is abuse.

End.

OP, until 5 minutes ago, mental health issues which involved delusion, fantasy or psychosis such as schizophrenia or anorexia were approached the same way - unless you are the treating professional you avoid the topic. You don't offer advice to the afflicted person and you absolutely NEVER affirm the delusion or pretend you too can hear the voices.

By ignoring this basic safeguarding the #beunkind crew have cemented in the brains of attention seeking and unwell people that they can force the world to comply with their wants. This leads to a spiral of pain for those who desperately want the delusion to be true because they always, a hundred times a day, slam into the wall of reality, and they don't cope well with that.

If affirmed enough in the fantasy the child may also access wrong sex, early death infertility and atrophy hormones. If their demands are politely batted away and attention for their fantasy withdrawn they may avoid that fate.

Unfortunately that's all the help you can give the other child.

So as well as being desperately cruel to your own child to try to coercively bully them into speaking lies, it's actually very cruel to the other child in the end too.

You don't feed morbidly obese kids McDonald's if you care about their well being and you don't call them slender and encourage them to eat two dinners either. Reality matters.

They’ll only be “at loggerheads” if the school are supporting the child and their family’s enforcement that others must follow their belief system.

Pronouns are not a personal choice issue as they require others to enter into a whole ideological belief system. As OPs son has well articulated.

You are simply being dishonest about your position when you say pronouns are personal choice. If you think ‘chosen’ pronouns are something everyone must adopt, then at least be honest that your position is that this is a secular belief system that should be forced on all, regardless of whether they believe in the ideology. At least then you are being open with yourself and others about your authoritarian and intolerant position.

Oh FGS no one is coercively bullying anyone. No one is standing over the child forcing him to do anything.

What people are doing are suggesting sensible ways in which this tricky situation could be explained to an autistic young person, specifically without asking them to change their core beliefs, but in a way which means that they won’t constantly be at loggerheads with the school/ other family for the next 7 years. And where they are at least respectful to another vulnerable person who holds a different view.

Taking your own personal issues and using them to make someone else’s life more difficult is not helpful.

Coercively bullying a child into denying reality, lying and participating in a fantasy is cruel, disrespectful, unkind and deeply harmful.

He needs to avoid these toxic people at all costs and if forced to interact only use the child's name. Forcing him to lie is dangerous, harmful, unkind and deeply disrespectful.

Your son is correct. They will probably be a girl by the time year eleven rolls around again! So many young trans people end up regretting it.

I’m as GC as they come but I agree with this.