Autism vs trans - clashing views

Good point @peaceatnight the whole thing is very black and white, there is no room for disagreement or discussion. Personally I don't have a huge issue in how people identify but I feel strongly about protecting women's spaces. It's not something however I tend to bring up. My sister however started ranting at my kids about how JKR was a horrible disgusting person and I tried to discuss it with her and she absolutely shut it down. I don't think she should be saying this to a pre teen HP fan, she was somehow triggered by his HP sun hat. Another time my dad made a Fr Ted reference and we got the same angry rant about Graham Linehan. I'm almost afraid to talk to her about anything anymore. We all know singers or movie stars who have political or moral views we disagree with but we dont go around having a go at people who admire them. My sis and I are both heterosexual middle aged married women. We've often had different views but never have I seen her so dogmatic and nasty until the trans movement.

Good point @peaceatnight the whole thing is very black and white, there is no room for disagreement or discussion. Personally I don't have a huge issue in how people identify but I feel strongly about protecting women's spaces. It's not something however I tend to bring up. My sister however started ranting at my kids about how JKR was a horrible disgusting person and I tried to discuss it with her and she absolutely shut it down. I don't think she should be saying this to a pre teen HP fan, she was somehow triggered by his HP sun hat. Another time my dad made a Fr Ted reference and we got the same angry rant about Graham Linehan. I'm almost afraid to talk to her about anything anymore. We all know singers or movie stars who have political or moral views we disagree with but we dont go around having a go at people who admire them. My sis and I are both heterosexual middle aged married women. We've often had different views but never have I seen her so dogmatic and nasty until the trans movement.

Obviously your first sentence has been corrected by others and I’m glad that you understand.

Do you think it is kind to instruct an autistic child to use words they know to be incorrect when you know they will struggle with that?

Do you think it is kind, as an adult, to agree that a young girl is ‘really a boy’ and to instruct a whole school to acquiesce to her parents unreasonable demands?

Making that kind of a whole school announcement means that girl will now find it extremely difficult to back away from this decision made as such a young child. Feelings change so much over a short period for children, especially through the hormonal turmoil of puberty.

If there is no adult encouragement or affirmation, the cast majority of kids with these feelings will grow out of them as they progress through puberty.

That is the best case scenario now, that she will have to make a difficult and hugely embarrassing announcement that she isn’t ’really a boy’ (I have seen exactly this scenario with DDs friend, she had the name change and announcements but is now mortified about the whole thing as she looks back at her reaction to a difficult time through puberty).

The worst case scenario is that she believes the lie by trusted adults that she is really a boy and will need to modify her body to ‘be her true self’. This body modification would involve amputating her breasts (can be done privately from 18) and taking large doses of testosterone (also available privately) which will harm her health in a number of ways. She is quite likely to suffer vaginal and uterine atrophy with long term use which will cause chronic pain, infertility and require further surgery. She is also very likely to wear a binder which will deform her breast tissue and ribcage.

All because the adults in her life won’t tell her the truth, that she will always be a girl and the safest, most effective solution to her current distress at being a girl is to learn to accept it and the feelings will almost certainly pass and she will be ok.

None of this is kind to children.

I think most parents encourage their dc to be kind to everyone, don't they? Regardless of your beliefs, we're talking about kids here!

I have two asd sons. You need to simply state the person has changed their pronouns based on their brain and what they feel on the inside. Say their body doesnt match their outside parts.

for some things I just tell my son its a rule. We live in a reciprocal, social society and he has to make attenpts to understand and respect otgers. He doesnt need to agree thats not relevant it just is. The same goes for sexism, racism, agism. There are certain topics I have told my son just are and have to be accepted based on rules.

Its tricky to keep up so apologies if I miss replying to any comments of questions.

My son has been bullied quite badly by several kids in this class. Despite that he's always kind and quiet and never been in trouble at school. His ADHd is very internalised and he's absolutely not the throwing chairs across the classroom type.

As mentioned previously gender has been something has often been bullied about. He plays with girls and pink used to be his favourite colour. Over time people called him gay and a girl regularly. This was merely based on appearance. Its led him to express suicidal thoughts and to self harm at points.

So I can understand that seeing that just changing clothes and names can lead to a new gender is quite upsetting. It has naturally made him question if he should actually be a girl. But he doesn't think he wants to be. So it's really confusing.

While this isn't the trans girls fault I do feel society is to blame for going backwards with sex discrimination. Whatever happened to the idea that boys and girls can wear and do what they want? Who decided that changing gender is the ideal outcome to being a bit different at such a young age?

Also - it has been made clear by the parents that they will view mistakes in pronouns or name to be transphobia and that they will kick up hell if this happens.

Honestly I'd tell him to avoid this child altogether. Not because they are transitioning but because they think not using their preferred pronouns amounts to a form of bullying. Asking people to change the way they speak and using grammar that often makes no sense is a big ask and even those trying will make mistakes. Plus its no more than 'preferred', we all have things we prefer but dont get and that's life. I suspect they are looking for a reason to play victim, if the correct pronouns are used they will be saying people look at them too much, don't look at them, look at them funny etc. It's going to be a minefield.

We all need to be respectful and kind. That means absolutely never colluding in the coercive bullying of any child to attempt to force them to lie, twist reality and accept being gaslit in order to participate in someone else's fantasy.

To return to the OPs question, of course it would be very wrong to disrespectfully confuse, distress and harass your son by forcing him to comply with fantasy participation demands.

Best to attempt to completely avoid these toxic people and only refer to the other child by name when forced to address them at all. The parents will increase the coercion and bullying if they sniff out dissent from the party line and unfortunately, you can't help the child.

I think most parents encourage their dc to be kind to everyone, don't they? Regardless of your beliefs, we're talking about kids here!

Its tricky to keep up so apologies if I miss replying to any comments of questions.

My son has been bullied quite badly by several kids in this class. Despite that he's always kind and quiet and never been in trouble at school. His ADHd is very internalised and he's absolutely not the throwing chairs across the classroom type.

As mentioned previously gender has been something has often been bullied about. He plays with girls and pink used to be his favourite colour. Over time people called him gay and a girl regularly. This was merely based on appearance. Its led him to express suicidal thoughts and to self harm at points.

So I can understand that seeing that just changing clothes and names can lead to a new gender is quite upsetting. It has naturally made him question if he should actually be a girl. But he doesn't think he wants to be. So it's really confusing.

While this isn't the trans girls fault I do feel society is to blame for going backwards with sex discrimination. Whatever happened to the idea that boys and girls can wear and do what they want? Who decided that changing gender is the ideal outcome to being a bit different at such a young age?

Also - it has been made clear by the parents that they will view mistakes in pronouns or name to be transphobia and that they will kick up hell if this happens.

Its tricky to keep up so apologies if I miss replying to any comments of questions.

My son has been bullied quite badly by several kids in this class. Despite that he's always kind and quiet and never been in trouble at school. His ADHd is very internalised and he's absolutely not the throwing chairs across the classroom type.

As mentioned previously gender has been something has often been bullied about. He plays with girls and pink used to be his favourite colour. Over time people called him gay and a girl regularly. This was merely based on appearance. Its led him to express suicidal thoughts and to self harm at points.

So I can understand that seeing that just changing clothes and names can lead to a new gender is quite upsetting. It has naturally made him question if he should actually be a girl. But he doesn't think he wants to be. So it's really confusing.

While this isn't the trans girls fault I do feel society is to blame for going backwards with sex discrimination. Whatever happened to the idea that boys and girls can wear and do what they want? Who decided that changing gender is the ideal outcome to being a bit different at such a young age?

Also - it has been made clear by the parents that they will view mistakes in pronouns or name to be transphobia and that they will kick up hell if this happens.

Trans children/ adults are at significantly higher risk of suicide . I think I would be teaching my children, autistic or not,to be kind and friendly. I dont think we should leave it to school kids to sort out a human rights act.

Well I’m autistic, but I mask well, I am also very polite and the polite thing for your DS to do in this situation is to call the trans child by their current chosen name & refer to them by their current chosen gender.

Explain to DS that in social situations; politeness often has to win over bluntness or what he sees as honesty. Basically little white lies are often acceptable.
To avoid causing huge upset & offence to the individual he is addressing; to keep friends, & to avoid him from being bullied for any perceived rudeness or bad behaviour.
It will be difficult for DS to initially understand / accept this viewpoint but he will find it a lot easier to function in society going forward if he does.

Sadly when you are autistic you can’t always be your true self in this world; there is a lot of hate for neurodivergence.

My personal beliefs on the trans situation are live & let live.. I have a couple of trans friends & it’s all good.
But obviously a lot of others feel strongly in the opposite way.
I just think that at school.. as a fellow pupil you should never decide to upset or cause hurt when it can be avoided. That principle should be more important than ‘being right / honest (in your DS’s view) I think.

If parents are encouraging children to be kind then they could encourage them not to expect others to lie for them

Well I’m autistic, but I mask well, I am also very polite and the polite thing for your DS to do in this situation is to call the trans child by their current chosen name & refer to them by their current chosen gender.

Explain to DS that in social situations; politeness often has to win over bluntness or what he sees as honesty. Basically little white lies are often acceptable.
To avoid causing huge upset & offence to the individual he is addressing; to keep friends, & to avoid him from being bullied for any perceived rudeness or bad behaviour.
It will be difficult for DS to initially understand / accept this viewpoint but he will find it a lot easier to function in society going forward if he does.

Sadly when you are autistic you can’t always be your true self in this world; there is a lot of hate for neurodivergence.

My personal beliefs on the trans situation are live & let live.. I have a couple of trans friends & it’s all good.
But obviously a lot of others feel strongly in the opposite way.
I just think that at school.. as a fellow pupil you should never decide to upset or cause hurt when it can be avoided. That principle should be more important than ‘being right / honest (in your DS’s view) I think.