AIBU to consider care for my autistic child to protect us?

I noticed the time you posted, and that tells me , you are totally drained and you can no longer cope, and probably stared at the computer screen for a while, before you been to type... You have done the very best you can do. By placing your daughter into residential care will be the best for all of you. Growing up our neighbours adopted a baby, years ago. They had a very bad time with him as he grew up. He would climb out of windows, standing on the roof of their house, run away, attack the parents and his sister, the list goes on, they did all they could. He was getting stronger, and they were getting older, and could no longer cope. He went into residential care. It was the best thing they did. He was alot happier there, knowing that, the parents were alot happier too. They visited him every weekend without fail, and brought him home for special occasions like xmas day, etc , they took him back early evening. You are amazing, you have done all you can, you have another child to think of, Obviously this is the only way you can get her the help she needs, ofcourse it's the best thing to do. I genuinely hope, it all goes well for you, but never forget what an amazing mum you are, because you are...

It's worth saying you can deal with these issues and your child not be PDA. I have one PDAer who was violent during burnout but now hardly ever is thanks to changes in our parenting, and a non-PDA AuDHD demand avoidant child who was much more routinely and intensely violent than their PDA sibling, though greatly improved now. With the non-PDAer we had months of having police out twice a week due to assaults on me and criminal damage (smashing up rhe house) whereas now it's pretty rare for us to need to call them. PDA strategies work well for both children though.

As a PP said, if the problem is caused by PDA (or non-PDA demand avoidance), standard autism strategies and traditional parenring will almost certainly be making things worse, whether at home or at school.

CAPA do most of their stuff online.

There seems to be no help , no “handbook “ on what to do

people had this notion of on inclusive society but no idea how to build it and it’s left to mothers like you to basically just keep people alive

I am so angry on your behalf , on the failure of society to support you, on the failure of science to tell you how best to support your child and protect yourself at the same time

I’m sorry op. No one gets how hard it is having a pda child unless you have one. Mine has been home learning for a couple of years and has calmed down a lot. We tried social services, CAHMS, Early help, various private providers and have an EHCP. The only thing that helped was removing her from school.

Sounds like my 8 yr old, can present as totally neurotypical, can break down completely and attpt to throw a table when overstimulated.

What I've found is I need to be incredibly calm around him and a certain amount of the madness needs to be ignored. He can't be corrected in an angry way or he feels shame very deeply a d becomes massively dysregulated and then it's w hours of calming him before you can teach him anything. We've been lucky due to his medical history to have i put from our local neuropsychological team who tell us we are doing a brilliant job and they have given significant input since he was 4 when we first realised the intense tantrums were actually autistic meltdowns.

Edited to say I forgot my point which was that in our experience changing our allroaymassiveky reduced meltdowns and helped him learn. As did getting melatonin for sleep so if she's not sleeping I'd ask for help around that which should be straightforward.

I worry so much for what the teenage years being as my very big 8 yr old can injure me now and while he's always very sorry almost immediately on the moment he doesn't haveuch control on his impulsivity and I worry so much he'll I jure me badly then have to live with that guilt.

Keeping him busy helps a lot, lots of physical outlet, on the 'little but autostic' side his neuropsycholgist said he has a lot of strong autistic traits and is only managing to cope because of our low demand lifestyle and support. Try to look at how to provide low demand, an outlet for a special interest and 1-1 co regulation.

I dunno I'm guessing we'll never sleep a full night or have a worry free day again. However I notice you've started to feel like your daughter is unhelpable and to think you need to get rid of her for the sake of your younger daughter. I've an easier second child too. We don't get to choose our kids. We get to support them and deal with them as i doviduala and I think you've lost sight of your love for your daughter in all the pain and hardship which so so easy to do. Can you ask for some counselling for yourself? Not because you're doing anything wrong but because to get to this point you must be totally burnt out and hanging by a thread and counselling helped me immensely when I wasn't coping. Which in turn helped everyone

I have been having a similar situation and the police as been useless. Did write to MP - no response. My Dd is 14 but does attend school.
After a previous arrest a social worker was allocated however not much has been done because she is 14 it’s harder as they have a lot more say.
Would you consider a section 20? Temporary care to hopefully push for more support?
We have also been referred to local Adolescent Resource Centre for child at risk of going into care.
She is refusing assessments at the moment but psychologists have recommended a dual assessment for but it wouldn’t change the behaviour.
i can really empathise with how difficult it is for you. I have said if she attacks me one more time I’m done.
She is also under CAMHS awaiting DBT treatment.
I hope this helps

I found Capa First Response really helpful (and quick).

OP I really feel for you and as a parent of a PDA child know how hard dealing with the violence can be. Rest assured it’s not you, it is the PDA and it’s not recognised and talked about enough in terms of the violence/language/behaviours that they can’t seem to stop and parents bear the brunt of. It may well be that residential placement is needed but in the interim, can you change anything as it’s not likely any change won’t come from your child no matter what you do. The issue is lots of “autism techniques” escalate the situation not deescalate and it’s hard to get decent advice. The only thing I have found with the violence is to move myself (and sometimes literally running) to a room put a barrier of a door between them, hold it and say “this is my safe space, I don’t want to be hurt”. For my kiddo this seems to trigger a realisation in about a minute something has gone wrong as despite being violent they are normally trying to connect with me as genuine PDA fight reactions are about anxiety and fear not actual intent to hurt you- although it certainly feels personal and targeted at the time. I have also heard things about Non-violence resistance parenting courses. Its not specifically for PDA children but parents of PDA kids say it works well for their PDA children.

Pda... look into it. The work involved in parenting this is devastating.

@Myunhappyheart we were in your situation 10 years ago and we did exactly what this poster has recommended. Our child was placed in an excellent residential school within weeks. The transition planning was excellent - everyone worked very closely with us and we got to chose the school from a shortlist of those who had places and felt they could meet the needs.

We continue to see them regularly including spending holidays together. Their behaviour is now much better managed although there are still some violent outbursts and they seem happier and more settled. Our other children have had the space to live normal lives.

For us, this was the best decision in an awful situation. It was incredibly hard to make and we felt huge guilt at the time but the simple fact was that there was no support for families in our situation outside of the nuclear option.

Happy to DM with you if that would be helpful.

It’s not easy to access residential care there will be a lot of pushback from SS.

It sounds like she might be in burnout.
Is she still on roll at a school? Sadly school is often a factor in burnout and challenges at home - even when the child is not actually attending - because the expectation that they "ought" to go back causes so much stress.

Yes, if you are not safe and can’t cope,You will always be a big part of her life.
I can’t imagine how hard it is. I follow a girl from northern Ireland on TikTok who has a severely affected autistic daughter, her life is so tough.
I know that some posters on mumsnet are in the same situation as your family, they’re amazing, life is very tough for them. Hopefully they can offer you some help and comfort, even with respite help if there is any available.
Good luck.

It sounds like the 'help' you've had has been from unhelpful people.

Research on families with ND children wih challenging behaviour suggests that in ~90% of cases, organisations like CAHMS and social services don't help, and often make thing worse. The same research shows that with specialist help and support from others in similar situations, you can turn things around.

I would look at (in this order):

Newbold Hope (for additional needs either violent & challenging behaviour)

CAPA first response (child against parent violence).

Newbold Hope have free articles and videos on their website and a FB group which is really helpful. They also have low-cost more in-depth training videos.

Probably you will need a whole mind-set change, as that is what is most likely to make a difference. It is clear that she is very dysregulated.

Have you ever looked into PDA or demand avoidance? That is often a factor at play in situations like this.

Take heart - it can change. I haven't actually done any training with them, but I looked at an organisation called the Centre for Excellence in Child Trauma, who have a training course for families in crisis, who were actively looking at putting their child into care. Their course had 100% success rate ie by the end, none of those families still felt the need to put their child in care. That course is a paid-for one, but helpful from organisations who specialise in these issues can really have a transformative effect on your whole family. Learning from other parents via support groups can go a long way too.

Absolutely inexcusable that you should be floundering through this alone! Why should you know how to deal with this clearly extremely challenging situation?

I am in a different country with an autistic daughter who is not violent and does attend school, and I would have no idea how to parent her without the OT, psych and other support we get. How on earth is someone in your position meant to navigate things without all that and more (not to mention respite)?

Just appalling that the system has abandoned you like this and put you in this heartbreaking position. Thank goodness for your GP, I really hope you’re able to get some help very soon.

A long time ago I had a summer job & worked with non verbal violent autistic children in residential care. I won't go into how hard it was as that's not what this is about.

OP please do not feel guilty for doing what is best for your child & your family. You are in a situation that is no different to making the decision to place a parent in care. There comes a time when you can't cope & there is simply no choice. You are an excellent mother who has done her best. You are now holding your hands up & saying help me & help my child by giving her a place in residential care.

As a PDA mum, you have my deepest sympathies. I get it. I really do.

Have you tried:
Capa First Response
Aspens
Occupational Therapy

What does her day to day look like?
What parenting methods are you using?

It sounds like she may have mania along with the ASD. Call the GP, call CAMHS again, cry on the phone (it worked for me). Call child services to see what help they can give you. Talk to your DD. Tell her things need to change. Tell her you love her.

Do what is needed to get her help, which might be attending a boarding school specialising in ASD. This isn't just about protecting you/your youngest DD, this is about helping your eldest DD.

CAMHS tend to swerve autistic children, even suicidal ones, unfortunately. It’s maddening.

Some children need a team around them and one person can’t do it.
please don’t see it as a failure or bad thing. It could be what she needs. I watch children being supported in residential for the exact reasons you describe and they have really thrived. The family have thrived too and this developed into a joyful relationship with their child.
residential is not always a last resort, it is sometimes the right thing.

Hopefully CAMHS will step up. I hear they are very slow and useless. I wrote to my MP about an issue with my ICB and he was very helpful. You are at crisis point , at least your GP sounds helpful.