To think far too many people in UK & elsewhere are making stupid decisions about drugs and ignoring the consequences re county lines, criminal gangs etc?

Good post. I do think ppl handwave a bit about cannabis because they did a bit when they were young and it didn't do them any harm and it's not seen as dangerous compared to other drugs. But people being trafficked and enslaved in the UK to grow is a real issue. It's on our doorstep - organised crime which we've imported here due to demand.

I do laugh a bit at the horse tranquiliser stuff on this thread - it's a bit hyperbolic. It's used in emergency medicine and for children (as its very safe and children don't experience the dissociative hallucinations). Using ket recreationally is addictive though, I don't think that's talked about enough.

Lots of these drugs are relatively cheap as well. Compare to what you'd spend on a night in the pub, a gram of coke or eighth of weed or a couple of pills compares very well. And if you buy more then the cost comes down. The economics of it is an issue too.

Now I'm not saying we should make alcohol cheap again because it's a poison and addictive but people are drinking less these days. I don't drink any more (I don't take drugs either just to say) and i think a lot of these drugs are seen as cheap and fun tbh.

But the thing is drugs like heroin have to be imported from quite a distance so that was a major feat tbh when most of the world was in lockdown. I don't like drugs but have to admit that's impressive work.

It was easier to get heroin or cocaine than flour in lockdown.

It was harder to shift things out to the towns. This led not to no supply but enough of a shortage in the early days that it all got a bit stabbier than usual in some areas.

So you just mean "people take drugs!! Its awful"?

I always found it bizarre that during COVID when many legal things were hard to get in lockdown we didn't have a flood of heroin addicts struggling to acquire their drugs. Seems the cartels and gangs are better at distribution and production than legitimate business.

And how does that stop the use of heroin, cocaine etc?

How will that stop children being groomed into drug gangs and the knife crime epidemic involving child on child murder over drugs.

With cannabis, I know some people in the UK grow their own, but it's important to remember that a lot is trafficked too using people who are essentially slaves.

They are also victims of prohibition. But why do you think people grow their own to dump the dealer ? No one likes mixing with criminals.

I was merely noting that as far as I am aware there is not a jurisdiction in the world that does not place some state control over alcohol. What that may or may not do for this discussion is another matter.

It seems to me that places like Spain & Amsterdam which have legalised weed have still got constraints on how, where & when it is consumed.

as have most countries for alcohol ....

Yes I'm in Canada .

So, traditionally we had a pretty Puritan to booze in Canada. You had to buy it in a government shop, and pubs didn't have windows so people could not see in and be contaminated. It's much looser now but there are still rules like no open containers in public places.

With the hard drugs, a more healthcare based strategy was adopted a number of years ago as a part of a harm reduction strategy. The idea was to concentrate law enforcement on dealers but leave users alone. Part of the concern was clogging up jails and using police resources but getting no real change.

There is also a strong belief among the harm reduction proponents that there is no point in sending people to rehab unless they take themselves, and pushing them to go it is no good either.

As a result, the police have been told not to arrest people for using in the streets. There are really no tools to deal with people doing this kind of antisocial stuff. It's become normalised to a significant extent.

Nothing to do with poverty. These are party drugs. It’s not like all the celebrities and musicians who took drugs were impoverished is it?

People have accepted this idea that it's "prohibition" that is the problem . If only it was legal people would be responsible.

That's not what I see. Hand in hand with weed legalisation, the rise of energy drinks, and corner cosmetic procedure shops, and masses of kids on prescription drugs, there is a massive change in attitudes to drugs generally. Better living through chemistry, become your true self.

What's weirdest to me is where I live you can be arrested for going down the street with an open beer. People come drunk into my workplace are kicked out. But you can comd in high, shoot up on the street in front of kids, there are young people slumped over in the street due to fent. They dll smoke weed all day too.

It's effectively " legal" now, all it has done is make people believe this is ok.

I see lots of young guys like this in my workplace. And old ones who are constantly stoned and do nothing all day. They all reek too, it makes the space stnk.

My kids in school can see perfectly well that the kids on drugs are going nowhere. A lot start using weed at about age 12. They get it from their pay who seem to believe it's safe, since it's legal. You see increasing numbers call it "medicine", especially if they buy it on reserve. The reserve close to me has about 10 weed shops on the main road when you drive through.

I'm aware of this. I don't think there's a lot of overlap with the use of it medicinally, and those dealing it to people who like to be stoned though. Cannabis doesn't bother me at all personally as a whole, compared to other drugs it causes much fewer issues with county lines and exploitation/slavery etc and I know a lot of people who do it regularly who aren't your stereotypical 'down and out dosser in a block of flats' but it does still have its issues.

The UK is one of the worlds biggest legal supplier of medical cannabis.