AIBU to ask whether the death penalty should apply for certain crimes in the UK?

I wouldn’t. It would give him multiple more years in the limelight in court. I’d rather he was just locked up and forgotten about, while the money that would be spent on his appeals is spent on improving the social care system.

For a case like Lucy Letby's? Or? Most likely yes? And that case is really iffy.

No thank you.

She doesn’t know what it means!

I think anyone who followed the Preston Davey trial would gladly see Jamie Varley hang - after a few decades suffering in prison first. He tortured and raped a baby to death. He was the only person in the house with Preston when the abuse and murder took place, there was also video & DNA evidence so zero chance of miscarriage of justice.

But my point was that in say Victorian times when they were simultaneously abolishing the slave trade and executing people for a variety of offences the people regarded themselves as very Christian (and they had the same Commandments).

@PenelopeJoanSterling you still haven't addressed my points on recidivism and longer term cultural impact. Why is that?

It isn't, really.
"Thou shalt not kill" is words of one syllable (in English). And Calvary a pretty clear path.
People are tempted to twist things and churches evolve, splinter, etc. People are imperfect.
But this is the central truth.
Britain is largely a Christian heritage country and the King is the head of the Anglican church.
A meaningful update to that would be eschewing the death penalty.

Sorry, where did I say that?

I didn’t. I said that people invoke these tragedies in support of the death penalty in bad faith, in order to shut down the argument.

so you support Axel Rudakubana then? Poor chap should have been told his behaviour wasn’t the best… but alls ok. He can do whatever he wants with no impunity!!

I don't trust the government with it, and for that reason I'm against the death penalty.

That being said, I absolutely would not give a flying fuck about the loss of people like Preston Davey's killer and mass shooters, where there is absolutely 0 doubt what's happened.

There are some people who absolutely cannot be rehabilitated. And for me, it's honestly about what someone deserves, rather than it being a deterrent (which we know it isn't). I work in mental health services, and see the effects of things like childhood sexual abuse time and time again. It feels like there is barely any justice for victims sometimes.

Regardless, I can't endorse state sanctioned murder. There are cases we are absolutely sure (such as witnessed shootings), but the government would absolutely abuse it, and I also don't want innocent people killed (because if we allowed it for some cases even with 100% proof, it's a slippery slope to allowing it for others). So I'm against the death penalty, but whilst also holding the opinion some people are absolutely a waste of oxygen and shouldn't be on our planet.

"How DARE THEY murder that baby!!!!""

"The State should murder 2x someone else's baby! That's absolutely justifiable!!!!!"

Mindless.

well if our judicial system is that flawed, we need an overhaul and we all have a big problem. I’d like to think things have improved since the early 20th century and where there is dna, confession/multiple witnesses etc and it used sparingly in the most shocking cases (places like india and japan do this, not that they are beacons of justice but my point is in how it’s applied), i see no issue. There needs to be a high threshold met but I would gladly pull the trigger for recent scumbags: verley, couzens, letby,

Excellent points.

Well OK but that's a debate about the meaning and values of Christanity then not the DP.

"No one expects the Spanish Inquisition" remember that?!

Which is why it is up to-the justice system and not the victims. The death penalty is wrong - pure & simple.
As a family, we’ve an experience that directly would fall within the people you’d want to kill for their crimes. We still wouldn’t condone the death penalty. Ever!

I think when people invoke such tragedies as this, it’s done in bad faith. You know that nobody will sit here and say “well he deserves another chance”, thus essentially shutting down the argument.

But for every Southport there’s a Letby, who has serious questions around her guilt. There are miscarriages of justice everyday and humans are fallible. That alone is enough to convince anyone that the death penalty is wrong. If new evidence emerges after the death, then what? Someone else’s life has been taken unlawfully.

Never mind the logistics and legal issues involved.

Heresy is a thing and so is error...

Ruth Ellis's son was Clare Andrea "Andy" Neilson (sometimes known as Andre). Born in 1944 to an already married Canadian soldier, he was 10 years old when his mother was executed in 1955. Heavily traumatized by the event, he struggled with depression and tragically died by suicide in 1982 at age 37.

I would say they are Chrisian in name but pagan by values.

Really. I disagree!
Preston Davey. The death penalty for his abusers would absolutely be justifiable! Waste of oxygen the pair of them!

As has been pointed out, the Southport killer was a minor so wouldn’t have been executed anyway.

Plenty of Christians past and present would disagree.

I am on the fence myself but I'd say that, on balance, in the US it is Christians more than atheists who favourite the DP.

God in my understanding and faith has given us free will. He gave His Son who told us to love one another. The Cross speaks of forgiveness and the promise of renewal.

So you think autism means you can be as an adult male, a violent agressive murderer of little girls, but still whinge and whine?