AIBU to ask whether the death penalty should apply for certain crimes in the UK?

What about people convicted of murdering babies? Would they get the death sentence? Sally Clark for example? Angela Cannings? Would you have put them to death?

Why do people keep bringing up the Southport killer? Are we really okay with executing minors? And if so, what is the minimum age?

The reading list for miscarriages of justice in the UK would be a bloody long one, wouldn't it?

I could probably think of 20 or more just off the top of my head.

With some particularly horrible crimes - especially involving children- it's easy to understand the emotional drivers behind calls for the death penalty, however I firmly believe no state should have the power of life and death over its citizens, in whatever circumstances. Whilst the concepts of justice and vengeance may overlap, they are not the same.

100% for it. Not as a deterrent, but from a pragmatic point of view. Scum like Ian Watkins and the like, that recent gay teacher, who adopted a baby and literally raped it to death, the Southport killer and similar.

I don't see any point in keeping individuals like the above alive for decades, and wasting good money on their keep. Just get rid of the trash permanently, use the money on worthy causes.

As for 'my own family memebers', none of them are criminals, all of them are normal, law abiding people. And no, I don't believe they'd 'accidentaly' end up stabbing several little girls or being accused of raping babies, no. Or somehow end up in a situation being wrongfully accused of raping kids. Normal, decent people don't end up in situations like that. And if any of them would actually commit such crimes, then sure, fry them up too, they'd be dead to me anyway.

Lucy Letby is a good example.

I don't think the "beyond reasonable doubt" threshold was met in her case and think that she should have been acquitted, but I'm also not convinced of her innocence, if that makes sense.

I’m just genuinely astounded that someone can sit and type things like that. It’s concerning.

Again, you seem incapable of basic reading comprehension - to finish the sentence I wrote: banal compared to things such as torture, extensive child sexual abuse, serial rape, and other such sadism and brutality

I'm afraid as you only seem capable of arguing in painfully blatant bad faith, and actively misrepresenting my position in order to try to twist my words, it's utterly pointless trying to engage with you.

Get a grip of yourself. Genuinely, get a grip of yourself. Go and tell Ann Widdecombe’s family that murder is banal.

No.

If killing people is wrong, it's wrong for the state to do it.

And then there's the many, many miscarriages of justice that would have led to innocent people being executed if we still had capital punishment.

I'm still not sure what your point is. You seem to be appealing (very poorly) to emotion, and arguing with assumptions you've made up, rather than what I've actually said?

In fact, I've made it clear I still fall on the side of not being in favour of the death penalty (if barely), and I've said nothing in regard to being outraged by murder. Murder is fairly banal compared to things such as torture, extensive child sexual abuse, serial rape, and other such sadism and brutality (which often culminates in murder).

Well, he’s going to be deported. So he won’t be living next door b

No

Because it doesn't act as a deterrent
Because even with DNA and tech, miscarriages of justice still happen
Because its actually more expensive to keep someone on death row and kill them, to keep them in prison
Because we don't have a justice system where the victims decide the punishment, the law does

So what's the point?

And miscarriages of justice? Innocent people put to death? You ok with that, just to save you some money?

People like this delight. End the arguments about whether we should extradite him to another country to prey on girls there. Get rid and let the sun shine a little brighter.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly0ly30384o
Or this scum.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-64038743

Does anyone want them released and living next door?

Absolutely not.

It doesn't work as a deterrent.
It costs more than life imprisonment.
Too many innocent people will die.

I just find it quite funny that those who want the death penalty because they’re outraged by things like murder are actually just advocating for it themselves. Your comments are incredibly callous

I couldn't agree more - especially in regards to viewing the situation from a feminist perspective.

You only get mumsnet view rather than the wider general public.

I used to be firmly against the death penalty for the reasons stated already, principally miscarriage of justice.

However I increasingly think that yes, it should be an option. Not a regular option, not as a normal penalty if you are found guilty of x, but there as an option that can be specifically applied for and decided upon on a case-by-case individual basis for individual crimes. Because there are crimes that warrant death, and there are crimes when there is no doubt whatsoever about who did it, and there are crimes where you just think why are these people being left alive, why do the ordinary working people - men and women - have to pay to keep them alive for the rest of their lives? Some of these people - well men let’s be honest it is nearly always men - should never be released ever, and we can just end it and end the need for permanent protection and fear.

I admit this is in the context of overcrowded jails, and in the context of a misogynistic society where David Lammy can say that if we don’t release sex offenders out of jail the prison system will collapse with overcrowding, prompting two chains of thought: 1) who should be locked up for public safety if not sex offenders? clearly that doesn’t matter to a man and 2) why is there so much of it going on? But why should we pay to keep serial paedophiles and murderers alive for 40, 50 years, when there should never be any chance of release for public protection?

The possibility of miscarriage of justice is always, always talked about and it is a very real fear in a society where no one can ever fully trust government and law organisations: but then women have to deal with miscarriage of justice that is male sexism and misogyny every single day so where’s the justice in that?

Legally speaking, it's not murder. If it was, everyone involved in sentencing and carrying out the execution would be convicted of aiding and abetting, and committing a murder.

As it's legally sanctioned, and carried out in good faith that the conviction is correct, it's not murder.

I'm not sure why you're so hung up on the term 'murder' though? Is it somehow better if someone is killed and it's not murder? Does that make them any less dead?

I think the issue is that people frequently confuse correlation with causation.

Culture, and how homogenous a nation is, seems to have much more to do with crime rates than whether or not there is a death penalty.

Definitely. I don’t want to pay the cost of imprisonment for rapists and pedophiles. If you fail that badly at being a decent human, you can be sent back for scrap afaic.

It would be murder.

The lawful justification would be based on the fact they’re guilty of a crime. If they’re not, that justification is removed.

For murder and rape (especially of children).
India execute for gang rape and rape of children.