To refuse to lend DS £1,200 when he's still booked to go on holiday?

So parents in order to support their adult non working children should be blackmailed into handing over their own hard earned money to two non working adults who decided to have two children. The money is for spending money on a foreign holiday. It’s not for education, children’s shoes, a crisis, it’s for two adults to have fun. 2 and 5 year olds of non working parents don’t need to go to Italy. They can do non costly things like go to the seaside and buy an ice cream.

He's cocklodging off her.

Does this mean he's made a grand gesture of getting her to book a holiday without having the money to back it up?

@Jaxonus Agreed that you shouldn't lend him money.

An unemployed broke person booking holidays is absolutely bonkers and unhinged.

Even though I'm employed, I would very very rarely take foreign holidays because I have to prioritise saving.

I’ve made my point. I’m not gonna keep lamenting it but yes, actually that is a saying.
If you spoil your children, you’ll raise your grandkids.
If you raise your children you get to spoil the grandchildren.

OP just bear in mind that like so many other situations on Internet forums all of the big tough talkers on here would not behave the same towards their own children.
If he stops you from seeing the children, yes he is a shithead
But who’s loss is it?

I spend more than that getting my nails done and you probably waste 100 quid quite happily on another stuff that you don’t need.

You are lucky enough to have extra money at the end of the month for nails and “stuff you don’t need”. Many people don’t, so no, I don’t waste money on unnecessary stuff. Even if I had it, there are wiser and better things to do with £100 than nails 😂

Perhaps your situation is very different than OP’s, so I don’t think your advice applies to her right now.

That’s not a saying, and there’s nothing there that suggests the OP didn’t parent her son properly.

The OP has no obligation to raise her grandkids, no matter what her parenting style was. Even spoilt children become adults and that involves taking responsibility for one’s own choices. The 18 year old in this situation should become that, a responsible adult. He’s not entitled to OP’s money by any means.

No wonder we have so many people in society failing to take responsibility for their actions, with attitudes like yours around.

I’d wager that is what the £1200 is for.

Start as you mean to go on, OP. He’ll just be back for more in a few months. You need your savings for unexpected emergencies, not for this feckless man-child’s spends in Italy.

This is why we have entitled little brats.

She doesn’t have to do any such thing. She would be very wise not to, in fact.

I don't get this message. The first half is brutal and the second half is understanding.

But anyway, here's the thing: my DS21 has just received a first class degree from Warwick and my DS23 is what Mumsnetters call a failure to launch. I'd argue that it's nothing to do with my parenting and everything to do with them both being autistic but having different skill sets (hate that term - v mumsnet business speech) and very different personalities. One fits in with the world of academia and one doesn't.

No, you dont give 1200 to a woman who groomed your 15 year old son when she was 22. Have you ever had a conversation with him about that? Does he know its not okay?

How do you know what the OP spends her money on? Not of us would waste money like that. And the issue here is why should OP bail him out when he is wasting money on a holiday.

How is he going to find the spending money for the holiday ?

You are living in a dream world

The choice was parent earlier or support financially emotionally physically later. I think the saying is you either raise your kids properly and the reward is you get to enjoy your grandchildren,
Or you spoil your kids and then you get to raise the grandchildren instead that’s what she’s gonna have to do for now
And just be grateful, the money is going on a trip to Italy not crack

Yeah.

he's weaponsing contact with the grandchildren now

He needs OP's money more than OP needs him draining her. This will not be a one time thing and if she caves, he'll be demanding more and more. He'll raise this threat again. She will never have a stable relationship with the kids. They're his pawns and he uses them like he uses her.

He was a victim of grooming and sexual abuse but that doesn't excuse his choice to try to drain his mom's finances. He's now an adult who has made bad choices and he's trying to get his mom to finance his life when he can't be bothered to work or follow the rules at a workplace.

You can be the best parent in the world and still have kids turn out like this.

And as regards the rest - I kicked my eldest son out when he was 17. He didn't want to be parented or told what to do - he wanted to live his best life but it was coming at the expense of the rest of the family and all his siblings.

He turned his life around and is now married, a good dad and he and I have an excellent relationship. So don't say that we won't practice what we preach, because sometimes you HAVE to.

This is a form of domestic abuse.

Yes this. “He needs to understand”. He won’t though will he. If you want to give it do it but I doubt he’s going to pay it back and would criticise you if he ever reminded him of it.
if he wants to weaponise the children let him. Using his children to blackmail you is low. I don’t agree with people saying it’s worth paying to keep the relationship. That’s not a relationship I would ever want to have. You give, they take. He will keep doing it. You don’t give money when he asks- you lose access. You don’t babysit when he asks - you lose access. You look at them funny - you lose access.

Let him know that its him losing something if he does it and its him taking something away from his kids. Don’t chase or beg.

He didn’t make one bad choice, he’s made many and continues to do so. He didn’t lose his job by redundancy he lost it by not following the rules over and over again. He put himself in this position and expects you to pay for it.

OP, do you think your son has any special needs given his track record at school and his carelessness around health and safety at work? I don’t mean to pathologise him but ADHD springs to mind as it sounds like he doesn’t think ahead and consider consequences. And not to use this as an excuse for behaviour but possibly there is something underlying his behaviour as opposed to just him not being very nice? I agree with the poster that the toxic or manipulative aspect of his behaviour needs pointing out to him. He could be unaware of this and just reacting emotionally to not getting his own way.

Why should you cover someone else's kid and child maintenance? Absolute madness.

I think he's got ADHD or something.

I wouldn't even buy him food. My dad bought a relative £300 worth of food and they sold it all for cheap to get some cash.

No, don't lend him the money - you know it isn't a loan anyway.
He needs to start being responsible and you can't bail him out.

Don't lend him the money, OP. It won't help your relationship in the long run when you're under financial pressure and he comes back for more. Is his GF in contact with her parents to ask for a loan?

The OP is asking for advice as she obviously suspects giving them free cash won’t do them any favours or help them learn anything.

You’re saying that if by the age of 15 you haven’t “parented” (I’m sure you have, OP), you should just perpetuate the cycle and fund your adult child’s mistakes forever? Because that’s the price you pay? What you say makes no sense.