To refuse to lend DS £1,200 when he's still booked to go on holiday?

Why should you pay for their holiday ! They are on a permanent holiday as neither of them are working. DO NO GIVE HIM MONEY !

YANBU. If he is making adult choices such as having a child, not trying in uni, not finding a job, he should have real life consequences. Let them figure it out.

Only give him the money if it sits right with you but not because of pressure.
If its any consolation to you my ds was completely reckless at that age and making bad decisions. He dropped out of 3 third level courses. I was out of my mind. But around 23 he settled, got a degree, got a good job and is fairly responsible if a bit impulsive still. Meantime he was diagnosed with ADHD which explained a lot.
I wish l could have looked forward to how he is now and l wouldn't have worried as much.
And l do confess l gave him money along the way, wisely or not but l am not sorry now.
Your ds has dug a hole for himself but stick with him and hopefully he will mature.

@Corvidsarethebest The partner is the one who really wants the money though, it's allegedly for her household bills. OK, she houses the OP's grandchild, but that's it (the son only stays occasionally). If the OP wants to help out her son/grandchild, that's up to her, but this "loan" isn't really for them.

She should ask her own family for help...oh wait, they're estranged from her, I wonder why?

You sound like a loving mother OP and, like most of the other pp here, I agree with your decision not to contribute a penny to your son and/or his girlfriend. They both need to get a wake-up call about how life works. Whether your son gets that sooner or later and whether he acts on it or not is still to be seen. But as long as you are there to let him know you'll back him if he's trying to pick himself up, and perhaps to care for his child at times, that's more than enough. I would think you would be very wrong to give him this money at this time, especially since it would be a stretch for you to do so. I can't see it bringing any good resolution for him or for your future relationship with him. Wishing you strength in getting through what will undoubtedly be a difficult period to come.
(I also agree that the school was remiss in not treating this as a safeguarding concern.)

I disagree with most people on here.

Your son was immature and got completely taken advantage of aged 15, it was abusive for a 22 year old woman to have a relationship with a 15 year old and he is now fairly trapped in it.

I think of my children as my children til the end of university time, in terms of money. I give them extra for holiday money, treat them to nice meals out, fund their uni (as they don't get full grant) and provide a free place for them to live. Extra money is for them to earn.

I don't think this is a lost situation and all this 'cut them off' is quite ridiculous unless you want to keep a relationship with your son and your own grandchild. I wouldn't give him the money if I didn't have it, or I didn't want to, but I wouldn't shut down the communication with an 18 year old who has gone off the rails.

I'd say I can give you £500 or whatever you can afford, and there's no more. Everyone I know either subsidises their kids, or gives them extra money, and that includes those up to aged 30! No-one I know cuts their children off financially or emotionally at 18, whatever they have done.

People love to posture on here, but I bet none of them have cut their 18 year old and their own grandchild off, who would do that? He shouldn't have threatened to cut you off either, but he's a big teenager aged 18, and you are not, so you need to behave more calmly, more maturely, and help him toward better independence in the future, and that can be a softer way than 'cutting him off'.

Do not enable him. If he doesn't feel the consequences of his actions, he will continue the way he is, which is the biggest disservice you could to him and his girlfriend. You will never see it back, and they will ask you again. You will have to harden your heart, and risk having less access to the grandchild. I know it will seem hard, but they will be back asking for your presence in their child's life, even if only for babysitting. So, just let this tide over.

His children aren't your responsibility.

Exactly @EarthSight. He and the other father need to sort this out with their Mum, nothing to do with the OP.

I still want to know why she's estranged from her own parents, I bet she owes them money.

No the point of the thread but I truly hope there aren’t many people who buy overpriced plane drinks. One should take empty water bottles and refill them after security.

But he's accused of me making the children suffer but I don't see how I am

His children aren't your responsibility. He's manipulating you with that, trying to make you feel bad whilst not taking responsibility for this actions.

At that age, children just want and remember nice days they've spent playing with friends, or being in the park or by the beach. They won't miss going on a foreign holiday that lasts several days. That holiday is for him, and that's why he's guilt tripping you to put on the pressure.

I'm sorry OP, but your son sounds like an arse, and the fact that his partner was in her early 20s but didn't mind him being in his mid teens???? Pervy and odd.

But he's accused of me making the children suffer but I don't see how I am

His children aren't your responsibility. He's manipulating you with that, trying to make you feel bad whilst not taking responsibility for this actions.

At that age, children just want and remember nice days they've spent playing with friends, or being in the park or by the beach. They won't miss going on a foreign holiday that lasts several days. That holiday is for him, and that's why he's guilt tripping you to put on the pressure.

I'm sorry OP, but your son sounds like an arse, and the fact that his partner was in her early 20s but didn't mind him being in his mid teens???? Pervy and odd.

I think it's wild that a 21 year old woman was interested in having a 15 year old for a father for her existing child and got pregnant by him. Where are the gf's parents in all this; are they also being tapped for money to pay for holidays?

I think the previous suggestions of not giving money, but offering to do food shops is the way forward. If you are able to extend it to helping out with childcare on occasions for them to get back into work, that is also a good way of being supportive, but not giving them lump sums of cash to fund their poor decision making. Holidays are a luxury for most people, whether they're working or not and memories can be made in plenty of other ways which don't involve £££. Offer to take them on a cheaper day out to spend quality time together and make some family memories.

He's still living with you. Is he contributing anything financially?
I'd give him a time limit on finding a job. If he doesn't get one, kick him out. Because atm he's playing you like a fiddle.
No. Of course you shouldn't give him money. You can't allow him to start manipulating you using grandchildren. That's a long con. He could bleed you dry financially.

Do you have a husband/partner. Do you have other kids you support?

*ADHD? Again? Seriously? Can't he just be a little tosser who uses people to get what he wants while doing the very least to contribute to society? This place is exhausting.

Why are you saying it’s £100 a month? He’s asked for £1200 now, do you think he’s really not going to ask for anything else for another 12 months? It could end up being £1000 a month. And she’s only got one grandchild, which I’m sure she does a lot for and he’d be stupid to try and cut her out. I wouldn’t allow him to use the child as a bartering tool, he’ll just do that every time he wants something.

Your son sees your relationship as transactional. You give, he takes. I know a lot of people have said ADHD but that's more than ADHD. I wouldn't trust a word he says.

Your emergency fund is hard earned money you've put aside for your emergencies, not to give him spending money for holidays or pay gf's bills or anything. He'll be having bill issues every month, especially not working. Next thing will be you paying for the kids' stuff. It will never end and you will have an emergency and he will not be helping.

You're going to have to do with him what her parents have done with her.

@Elsvieta don't think it's a case of girlfriend not tolerating him not working it's a case of if on paper he was living there it would change things universal credit wise so it's a benefit fraud tactic not declaring

Very tough for you but id say a firm no. He needs to act like a grown up if he is living like one

Hell no. Don't help someone who isn't lifting a finger to help themselves.

And time he went to live with the GF. She presumably won't tolerate him not working and all the rest.

He chose to fast-forward to adulthood by having a child. If he never has to experience what it is to actually support his own child, there'll be another child soon - with this woman or another.

Tell him you're not interested in a pay-per-view relationship, with him or his child - or you'll still have one when he's middle-aged. He's not going to change until he's forced to.

Though I daresay you'll be seeing your grandchild when they want some free childcare...

It won’t be a loan, be clear about that. If he pays you back I’ll eat my hat.

Please don't give him the money. The gf doesn't work due to a health condition so I am going to guess she is claiming every benefit possible. She now needs a considerable amount for bills, why? How has she been budgeting? Her issue with the oldest child's father not paying is not yours to resolve. Your son is not living with her. He needs to ensure he is paying whenever he and her have agreed, if that means he has to get agency work so be it. He was grown up enough not to put something on the end of it when he started having sex, that comes now with a lifetime of responsibility. You will never see that money again and will be treated like a soft touch. If she cannot afford bills she cannot afford to go on holiday, who would be paying for spends etc?

Consequences. We do our best to teach our children that their actions and choices have consequences, and mostly we succeed - but for some children, the lessons don't take.

This young man started going off the rails whilst still a boy, when he was still unable to envisage the consequences he was risking. Those consequences are now coming into play (cancelled apprenticeship etc.) and he is still, childishly, sticking his fingers in his ears, singing la-la-la and expecting mummy to make it all 'right' for him. But that time is over, and it's time for him to accept his responsibilities for his child, his life, his CHOICES. OK, those choices were made before he could appreciate the gravity of them; regardless those were the choices he made and now has to live with.

He chose to fuck about with his school, in consequence he doesn't have any qualifications. He chose to fuck about with his apprenticeship, and it was withdrawn. He chose to not make every effort to secure a job. He chose to book a foreign holiday when he didn't have the money to pay for it, and he didn't have the money to pay for it because of prior choices. So - consequences.

I know it's hard OP, but you really need to let him experience the consequences HE created. Don't lend him the money. You must know it isn't going to go on bills, I'd expect it to be spending money on this unnecessary holiday, possibly even the holiday itself. Give him the money now, and he'll just come back for more, again and again, refusing to shoulder the consequences of his own actions.

To be blunt - 'lending' him money (you know he wouldn't repay it) just prolongs this refusal-to-be-responsible-for-himself phase of his life. It may be he chooses to stay in this phase forever. Maybe he'll wise up. Maybe he won't. But you need to accept you cannot help him move on in any way, and giving him money will not do anything positive for him. Quite the opposite.

" I said no and he's turned it on me saying I don't care and he's weaponsing contact with the grandchildren now"
Stay strong. If he'll weaponise contact now and you buckle, he'll do it every damned time from now on. I think @HandPulledNoodles has it spot-on with her suggestion that you respond " 'well thats your decision to not give them a relationship with their grandma' You have to dash the fantasy that he can do what he likes".

Send food. Get ASDA to deliver so you know they are all eating.

He sounds exceptionally impulsive. Was there ever a conversation about querying ADHD at any point in his school life?

Don't lend him the money.

Of course she does. Thats why she’s reluctant to give him money when he didn’t have to book a holiday they can’t afford.

Don’t do it. They need to grow up now. You’ll never see that money again