Vegans

People were being aholes on here and i bite bacj when i shouldnt

You could read into what scientists, conservationists, farmers and other experts think could/would happen if the world went vegan. They have great ideas for stopping species going extinct, making sure soil has nutrients, how the world would look, improvements to the environment etc. It is very interesting.

I do understand the vegan ethos and I stand by my point. We cannot eat and live without involving animals. And I completely agree that that we do much more than inconvenience animals right now and as I’ve started, intensive farming practices are not ethical or sustainable and there are not punishments harsh enough for those who harm animals.

The animal welfare groups in the article wrote to the museum to make them aware of their concerns about the birds. It seems they acted respectfully in how they asked the museum not to hire a company who exploit animals. The museum decided that they didn't want to be involved with companies that exploit animals. What is the issue?

This is exactly what I meant by the notion becoming nonsense when taken to the extreme. Humans could stop eating meat, but animals would continue to eat meat because that’s how the world works.

What would happen to the pet dogs and cats? They all die? Form packs and eat all rabbits? The world just doesn’t work is this fairytale version.

Surely an end to intensive farming, reduced meat and dairy consumption and better animal welfare would be a much better outcome rather than all of the animals we eat simply becoming extinct?

Sorry @clarinsgirl but you clearly have no clue what the vegan ethos is, if that's what you want to call it.
Also, I think we do a bit more than "inconvenience" animals right now.

Yeah no farm animals is the goal, and I accept that some species will go extinct, such as the domestic chicken. I have rescue chickens from the egg industry and honestly, extinction seems like the best option for them. Birds aren’t designed to lay an egg every day. Their bodies can’t cope. Many of them die of infections related to wonky egg production and the egg cracking inside them.

Similar story with turkeys, they aren’t designed to be that big and heavy, they struggle throughout their lives with their immense size. Although I once had turkey hen that hadn’t been “institutionalised”, she escaped from her farm as a chick, was picked up on the road, taken to a sanctuary, and ended up with us. Interestingly she never grew to the same size as other turkeys do, and was a capable flier throughout her life.

But anyway long story short, yes I would like to see no farm animals, or pets. Zoos can be a grey area for me. I’m against the for profit ones, but I’m not against the ones that allow visitors as a way of raising money for conservation work. As long as the animals are all rescues who were taken to the zoo as they couldn’t survive in the wild, rather than they were bred specifically to be an attraction.

Former farm land used for grazing should be used for rewilding to support the environment and wildlife, or growing food for humans. The swathes of land currently used to grow maize or soy for feeding farm animals could be put to better use too.

Wild animals will carry on as they are, I don’t think getting rid of farm animals would affect them? I could be wrong.

Of course this “end goal” is a long way away and if we get there, it’ll be slow, so we’ll learn and adapt as we go. There remain questions around what we would do about fertiliser, and feeding carnivore animals who remain in captivity such as sanctuaries. We don’t need to figure out what will and won’t work right away. For now, I’d just like to see fewer animals suffering at the hands of humans.

Sorry I feel like I’ve taken over this thread a bit. I do really enjoy talking about veganism when it is genuine questions and not just “mmm bacon”!

The vegan ethos is flawed. The idea that we can eat and live without inconveniencing animals is nonsense. Veganism like any idea taken to the extreme is nonsense. Every fruit is pollinated by insects, water is filtered through fossilised remains. We live in an ecosystem where everything is connected and it is simply not possible to avoid all animal products.

We do however need to eat less meat and dairy, what we are doing now is not sustainable. We also need to do better when it comes to animals in captivity, animal testing and animal cruelty in general.

Honestly, you got banned for “don’t nothing wrong”… sounds like a 12 year old making up an excuse.

What did you do that was “nothing wrong” ?

@Gloriia im genuinely curious… would you judge someone eating a chicken salad in the same way as someone scoffing a pork pie?

Did you raise your children as vegetarians / vegans? And if you did - do they remain so?

I didnt do anything. Other sites. What horse shit. I was the one getting bullied.

Works well for lots of people. Chickpeas and other legumes for example full of nutrients but some people prefer animals suffering in slaughterhouses so they can eat burgers for some reason.

Oh please. 'Rhetoric that gets people's backs up'? Have you rtft? Lots of sneers about healthy eaters/vegans and veggies. Unclench!

Meh, I was a vegetarian for 12 years and vegan for 4 of those years. I never announced it and the only time people needed to know was if they were cooking food I was going to eat. I don’t like anyone who feels the need to announce themselves and their beliefs/dietary requirements to everyone and their dog.

I love the idea of cows having an opinion on MN posters. Is there a Cowsnet? What forum topics do they have?

You got banned for doing nothing? Lol. Many people here and on other sites know what you did and mumsnet banned you because of it. You can’t help but out yourself when you make a new account by what you post. Very silly.

There are some vegans commenting in this thread - I’d love to hear a vegan’s understanding of how they see humanity interacting with the animal kingdom in a perfect vegan world.

presumably there would be no farm animals, no pets, no zoos or safari parks, any wildlife rescues or animal sanctuaries for wild animals would not allow visitors to view the animals. So none of the animals which exist to serve humanity - no horses, dogs, cattle, pigs, chickens etc.

Do they envisage wild animals with no human interaction taking over from the 90% plus of the world’s animals (by mass) which will no longer exist, or do they envisage a world with far fewer animals and little or no interaction between humans and animals?

or do they envisage reserves set aside for a small number of these animals to live out their lives, unobserved by humans?

I’m genuinely interested to know what the end goal would look like for a vegan?

What about those eating a chicken salad?

I never bullied anyone.

For doing nothing wrong.

@CarbootJunction I would rather the animals never exist than exist just to be killed and eaten and just as you don't see the big deal about eating a free range egg or a chicken that has been killed I don't see what's the big deal about eating meat or dairy. I get by fine without it, well more than get by. I love cooking, eat a wide variety of lovely meals and get all the nutrients my body needs. People are different I guess.

Are you possibly getting confused among multiple definitions of "vegan"? In the original definition, still the predominant one in US English, "vegans" are people who follow a diet that excludes animal products. The definition doesn't include any specific reason for this behaviour, doesn't require people to be militant or vocal or silent or anything in between about their diet, and doesn't account for any tangentially related activity like wearing animal skins or keeping pets. Someone could follow a vegan diet purely for perceived health reasons and none of your stipulations or projections would mean anything to them. In a more recent tag-on definition, which now appears to be primary in the UK, "vegans" are people who do not use animal products for any purpose.

That said, none of the vegans I know keep house pets, but I am a pescatarian and have a cat. Would that require a separate thread?

There is a vegan board isn’t there?

This thread is fucking ridiculous. Honestly MN and vegans needs it's own bloody board.

This.