To boycott Turkey and Egypt after homophobic action against cruise ship?

I think that's unfair, OP probably disapproves of Egyptian misogyny too.

I agree the cruise people were stupid but it should be remembered Egyptian homophobia most of all affects gay people there, not tourists, including plenty who aren't powerful.

I see what you mean. Gay men do often have a very hard time but you have a good point that within marriage at least they would have more agency

I do think there are other reasons why there is often more focus on gay men though. Some ME countries (similar to the pattern in 19th century Europe & other places) criminalise male gay sex but ignore female homosexuality. There's also the fact that in a lot of these countries, men are more likely to get caught & punished for homosexuality: maybe because women's sexuality is dismissed and seen as less threatening or because men may be able to avoid marriage and try to form relationships/have sex & thus are more likely to be caught. Part of the reason why men were punished for homosexuality until 1967 but not women was because they were more likely to meet together in public or semi public spaces, so it might be similar to some extent in those places.
So I agree there should be more focus on women but at the same time, I don't think greater focus on men is only due to misogyny.

promotes individuality as opposed to conformity. However not all countries agree with this and some are strongly patriarchal. Im thinking of middle eastern countries I have visited such as UEA, Egypt and Turkey. Who are we to say that their system is any better or worse than ours?

• how is it arrogant to assume democracy is better than this?

Do you really think this system is just as good as democracy?

Hamas targeted Israeli babies, deliberately, but they don't count because they were Jewish?
There is a really sad trope about Jews killing babies, and I am not saying babies have not been killed, on both sides, in this horrible war, but Hamas are very happy to use their own people as humans shields as well as taking Yazidi children as sex slaves, though they kill the boys.

Israel allows gay rights, therefore they should be allowed kill as many children as they want.

Seems to be the argument.

But they don't and they face no consequences for their despicable actions.

We in the west arrogantly assume that democracy is the only fair system of government. It promotes individuality as opposed to conformity. However not all countries agree with this and some are strongly patriarchal. Im thinking of middle eastern countries I have visited such as UEA, Egypt and Turkey. Who are we to say that their system is any better or worse than ours? If the culture of the country is against gay relationships then its very foolish of people in these groups to visit and openly reveal their sexuality.

Of course she knows. Everyone knows. It was Hamas in case you didn't know. It wasn't the children being targeted by the Israeli government. How much longer are you going to use that excuse to kill and abuse innocent people?

You know who started the war, by murdering babies in several kibbutz and then phoned their mothers to boast about it?

Interesting thread...

In some gay countries

Pray tell... where are they?

Let and let live I say.

And. Do No Harm.

It's the gay people living in those countries I feel sorry for.

They hang them in Iran..... 😭

@Holdonforsummer are you just as outraged at Egypt having one of the worst records for sex equality? Was that also enough to put you off your holiday? Or do women not matter? Just powerful western men who should know better than to book a gay cruise to a Muslim country?

That was my point. The life of a gay man is much easier than that of a gay woman, any woman. A man can marry and not have sex with his wife. She could then be killed for not getting pregnant. As you said, life for a lesbian would be one of abuse. Yet the focus always seems to be on gay men.

I abhor homophobia but two wrongs don't make a right and most humans have the intellectual capability to understand that two truths can co exist. Is homophobia more prevalent in the ME? Yes. I am pretty sure it is and that is condemnable. Do I agree with genocide? No, of course not. I just don't think that killing, maiming and displacing tens of thousands of children is acceptable or a fair consequence of some of their parents being homophobic. You seriously need to get your morals checked if you think it is.

I don't travel to countries where I don't agree with their rules or cultural norms. This includes turkey, Egypt and several others. Sad because I love to travel, I've always wanted to go to China,, but their human rights record is appalling. I went to Russia (before the war and before they outlawed gay rights again) and I'm glad I did as I doubt I'll go again in my life time.

@GoneWithTHeWindJammers haha! So true.

Gay men love cruising - that's for sure.

Sorry, I meant to quote OakleyAnnie :

There was such outrage here about this 8 year old ‘homophobe’ who has been called a bitch. Many pp agreed and said she was disgusting.'

• I had a look (assume it was this one https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/ami_being_unreasonable/5551688-neighbours-angry-at-ds-for-snapping-back-and-daughters-homophobia-hypocrisy)

It's worth noting 48% of the voters thought OP was YABU. Plenty of people on AIBU are looking for a fight/trolling, and deliberately take extreme positions which I suspect explains a lot of the replies being horrible about the girl. Plenty of replies criticised the DS.

It's also worth noting MN is not a hive mind & has huge numbers of users. It's doesn't necessarily follow that people criticising the girl support Egypt & Turkey.

. I don’t generally base my holidays around my sexual orientation

• I suppose it's probably like a lot of singles cruises. Only maybe more focused on casual stuff.

Hateshepsut was a great woman, not a trans man!

The pharaohs and ancient Greeks are dead so don’t get to make the rules any more. Greece isn’t Turkey anyway. The ship is unlikely to have been turned away in Greece which isn’t Muslim

I guess they can decide who comes into their country. They won’t care whether you visit or not.

Wasn't at least one Pharaoh a trans man?

What about the Pharaohs? Did they tolerate homosexuality? Apparently, the ancient Greeks did. They worshipped the male form.

I find the idea of an LGBT cruise weird. I don’t generally base my holidays around my sexual orientation. If I were organising such a cruise I would choose to visit countries that are known to be culturally liberal. Turkey is known to have become more Muslim and less tolerant under Erdogan and Egypt just tolerates Western cultural practices in its tourist spots for the money but many hate them as they dislike drinking alcohol and sexual permissiveness

Love gays, kill children. Yay!
"The evidence shows that Palestinian children have been deliberately targeted and killed by the Israeli security forces"
www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2026/06/israel-continues-commit-genocide-and-other-atrocity-crimes-deliberately