To think that digital creators and business coaches are not proper jobs?

This is bloody awesome. Well done him!

I expect those careers have become less aspirational as (for the degree ones anyway) you get in 70k of debt funding your own training, and then (if you are lucky and can get a job at all) you work bloody hard and can fund a lifestyle very similar to someone who has a few kids and works part time on universal credit.

As for jobs that contribute to society do you judge working in alcohol/junk food industries (contributing to alcoholism/obesity), cosmetic industries?
I worked in a small shop for a while - I mostly sold pop and sweets to teenagers, scratch cards/alcohol to twenty somethingsand fags to older people. Was that a real job? It was hardly helping society.

I agree. I think they put in tremendous effort but it’s a bit of a new version of a MLM. A lot of hustle and noise but little behind it.

I do a job that could be seen as similar but to me it really isnt. I do marketing (build websites, set up email, social, booking systems) for small business owners. But I have done this profession for 15 years. I don’t brand myself as a business coach though I do teach these skills. I am a qualified marketer with a lot of experience and skills. I definitely don’t just post about mindset. I work 1:1 or do small group training. It’s a good job for me and I generate about £3-4,500 per month across all my projects.

It isn’t a proper job. Husbands niece earns around 70k year as one of the top insta food influencers. She just copies other influencers. Shes actually quite isolated now.

I mean she’s winning. 70k a year so fair play to her, but it’s not a proper job.

I have my own business and I have used a business coach. She is brilliant.
she has come up with ideas that I haven’t thought of and helped me brain storm things.
she is not an influencer in that sense tho

when I first came across coaches they were generally those that had industry experience and much knowledge to impart. One of my friends is a coach but has decades of experience in a particular industry and a first class degree from Cambridge. Despite my introduction to serious coaches it’s very hard not to think of a coach as some Law of Attraction ex-MLM loon, simply because they have flooded social media. Now when someone says ‘I’m a coach’ I’m suspicious.

This unfortunate highjacking of the term has a lot to do with the declining MLM “industry”. Lots of formally successful Huns (successful largely due to joining MLM in the boom years, having other sources of cash or happy to bully downlines) can no longer make it work. They’re unwilling to return to the NMW jobs they criticised and slated others for hanging on to. So they decide to coach people, telling them they have the secret to success in MLM. Many of them know absolutely nothing outside MLM.

There are a lot of coaches selling coaching packages with big promises behind them, expensive back up training and dodgy certificates; coaches coaching other coaches to be coaches who coach other coaches. Mostly they coach each other. Occasionally they reach into clinical areas where useful vulnerabilities can be found - take former Apprentice runner up Jessica Cunningham’s Belief Coding which offers endless training to be a six figure entrepreneur and also an “evidence based” one session cure for dementia and lots of “facilitators” prepared to tackle anything from a vague sense of unease to psychiatric illnesses (see the Advertising Standards Authority ruling on 1st October 2025 re BCCR Ltd, not that this has stopped her).

coaching is the perfect MLM product. No need to bring in white label make up from China, just create a woo based system then take photos of yourself using other people’s expensive props and create an illusion of success, then tell people it’s down to finding the secret of success and selling them coaching programmes to have the same glamorous life themselves. If a few people lose their friends, jobs, marriages and mental good health along the way, well, they just had the wrong mindset.

A lot of MLMs are hiding behind coaching, whether that be business coaching or fitness/wellness coaching. Herbalife is a good example.

even onlyfans is just a modern version of basically being in a certain magazine only you choose your style etc

i think roles change , yes there are some that think retail, factory, finance, law the traditional roles yes i may be missing some but the point is if you can do a role and your getting double, triple, etc the nmw then why would you take nmw in retail roles etc, ?

I wish I had of had a Business Coach when I was younger. I feel like somebody stating the bloody obvious to me could’ve saved me years of wasting time and energy and not being directed.
Everyone needs a cheer squad and not everybody has that in their family

I didn’t think much of that lady’s page, it seemed quite vague meaningless language. She seems to sell a course called explode and talks a lot about people’s identity and brands and the benefits aren’t that obvious or information on the clients problems that she solves. I didn’t read it in depth but then the key messages weren’t exactly jumping out at me.

i do follow some content creators but it tends to be those where you can see what they do I like a few comedians, Adrian Biss does historic jokes that I share with dc, there’s a guy with a philosophy channel that I share with dd2, various historians (I think Alice Lockley is one). There are also a couple of gardeners I like eg gardening with Ish, people who do DIY, cooking, some stylists. These are talented people who are good at what they do and communicate well on subjects I’m interested in.

ha ha it sounds like I’m permanently on instagram and tik tok.

@SENsupportplease I’m not talking about executive coaches who are accredited with the International Coaching Federation or similar

I used to take this view about “influencing” but I’ve changed my tune.

Bottom line - if they make an income from it, then it’s a job.

I also think influencers and content creators are under a lot of pressure to keep the content coming, keep it fresh, and standing out in a crowded market place. It’s stressful, I expect, and wouldn’t be for me.

Yeah, is not what you’d traditionally deem a job. And yes, it’s uncertain - but so is acting, and no one argues that isn’t a job.

I also expect most of them earn fuck all and it’s a bit of a side hustle (a term I hate).

An old colleague of mine changed career a few years ago, has kind of floated about doing vague sounding jobs for a while but is now a “business coach for tech start ups”. Talks about how she worked for tech start ups and increased her salary to over 6 figures in less than a year, then doubled it a year later.

I was never quite sure how she could “coach” people into doing similar - surely it’s about qualifications and skills?

Anyway, her and her partner have just moved house. We were catching up and she was cagey about telling me where. So I didn’t probe, she obviously didn’t want to say.

…..mutual friend then revealed where it was. It’s a small, unattractive flat, in a bad area. There’s no way she’s earning 6 figures, let alone double that.

It’s all smoke and mirrors and I can’t pretend to understand it.

In my industry I know loads, probably hundreds of coaches. Not a single one is offering ‘become a coach’ training. Your algorithm is what you make it.

As someone else said up thread, most of these people posting about their “coaching” business are no different to any other multi level marketing “business” (aka a pyramid scheme). No different from being involved in Tropic skincare, Arbor, Stella and Dot, those odd travel agents……

They are essentially trying to make money by getting other people to sign up to “training” as a coach and then they will recieve a small commission from this, so the more people who sign up, the more they earn. But it will be a pittance - classic pyramid scheme. They are highly unlikely to make any money from having coaching clients.

So not really a job as such - just a scammy MLM “girl boss” non business

I’m friends with a content creator.

Not sure of her earnings, but I know it’s over £100k as she is over the free childcare allowance. She also has 3-4 holidays a year paid for by a particular hotel brand who want her to promote them.

Her follower numbers are in the tens of thousands rather than hundreds of thousands - so I expect their earnings are a lot, lot more. I won’t name them, but she told me of one creator who charges £80,000 for an ad on the social media accounts.

Seems very personal and vindictive to actually post someone you are denigrating.

The OW?

When I started my first management role 20 years ago I was given a business coach - she helped me develop and refine my leadership skills and manage a team for the first time. Very corporate, very much NOT a life coach and very much a real job.

Think McKinsey or the like.

However because it’s an unregulated industry the title has been bastardised and now every wannabe MLM Hun has adopted the job title coach and it’s lost significant meaning.

@Peekaboooooo "I think it's important for children to understand that you can be ssuccessful in a future job by just being yourself."

that's a rare piece of luck I think. I think it's important that children are realistic about work life. I think we already have some evidence of young folks being shocked by the reality of the workplace. We may be talking at cross purposes though.

in terms of saturated market - the stuff many people want to do is always like that. Most of us aren't doing the job of our dreams.

with your first post, there's definitely people out there who aren't making a living from it but maybe your friend is.

@Peekaboooooo looking at that lady you've linked to.... that looks like a very impressive business she has set up

I'm definitely missing a trick because I don't really understand how to create that kind of success

I don't really know why her appearance has to come into it

And as for moral worth - what kind of moral worth are you looking for? Business is business after all. She may have very sound ethics behind her set up

It feels like you've just looked at her and made a judgement. She takes care of her appearance. Some people really enjoy that.

In a way, I'm stuck in the same position because I have to wear make-up and I feel I have to dye my grey hair just in order to carry on a vaguely professional image.

i'm going to stick my neck out and say I'm not sure how up to date you are in terms of business and work and how it ties in with social media.

as for children, I've been complaining about children being exposed to social media for years. That's mostly about parenting. And 20 years ago, I was told I was an old fuddy-duddy for being concerned about it - by a teacher. And now - here we are.

Not letting kids be kids has got a lot to answer for. But why would you be blaming legit businesses for that? Should they set themselves up thinking "am I being a good example to a 10-year-old?"

I’m the least biased person you could ‘meet’, but I recognise your assumption. I was stating facts, not opinions. And of course you’re entitled to your opinions, I just object to your judgments and assumptions.

Image has been an issue for decades, probably longer. We all wanted to look like xyz in our youth. All the glossy folk on TV: the models in magazines: the pop and rock stars: the famous actors. We learned to be ourselves.

yes, modern times make this tough as hell, so all we can do is guide our kids as much as possible.

My DD was obsessed with looking a certain way at 10, but she didn’t have social media thank goodness ( because it wasn’t around). She made it through some difficult, very difficult, times and is now comfortable in her own self.

Most businesses aren’t image driven. However, in this era of AI it’s considered more important to show your face, be seen to be real and authentic.

it’s an unbelievably busy space, the online world, so if someone has something that makes them stand out in the blur of the scroll, then yes, ‘pretty’ is going to be noticed. It’s human nature.

Plenty of my friends in that world do the same. Not all have her looks, so may not be noticed by non-entrepreneurs or whoever. They still do well because they’re putting in the work. Which starts off as being seen. Engaging with their potential clients through their posts, and then their communities.

I do agree with you though, that some also seem to, I dunno, flaunt it a bit? (Hate that word, but I’m tired) I find myself rolling my eyes sometimes at some big hitters in the sphere but that’s because I personally don’t dress to impress, or for the male gaze. Never have.

It takes a huge amount of self confidence to put yourself out there in this way, so it’s not for everyone. And it’s not necessary for all businesses. It depends on how you want to get clients. I don’t think my daughter has even shared a photo of herself online yet!

Does your daughter know what she wants to do for a career? Building self confidence will be one of the biggest gifts she can carry into adulthood, regardless of her aspirations.