To have kicked an old man’s dog?

Her dog had been injured before she picked it up, which makes that bit of the debate moot.

As is the question of whether the large off-lead animal was damaging other dogs and people deliberately, out of malice, or just because it was out-of-control and (wanting only to play with these unwilling toys) was damaging its playthings. From the playthings' point of view the result is the same: vet advice needed for the smaller plaything, arnica on the bruises and disinfectant on dirty wounds (caused by dog's claws which have been in the earth and dogshit on the ground) needed for the larger plaything.

My mother didn't raise me to be a doggy-toy!

Ok you’re being fairly rude now.

Upthread I posted a very short post pointing out the injuries which another poster had reminded me of. That short reference to injury sparked quite a vehement post from you in which you said the ONLY reason she got injured was because she picked her dogs up (bold caps and all). If you’re going to persist in claiming that that does not amount to blaming her then a)I’m out, because I’m over trying to debate with someone in such strong denial about the meaning being conveyed by what they’re saying, and b) it’s your comprehension skills which need work.

And if you’re going to accuse me of talking about something I don’t understand, you should first look up the difference between an analogy and a simple comparison, because the difference matters.

Educating myself about dog behaviour would not stand any chance of changing my view on whether the OP was blameworthy for kicking the dog, which is what I take the thread to be about and what I have commented on.

Others have given OP advice about how she could have handled it differently eg to distract the dog. It’s interesting, don’t you think, that I haven’t taken any issue at all with those posters giving advice like that in a human, reasonable, empathetic and non-blaming way. And yet I have taken issue with you. Maybe have a think about why.

She was not attacked, her dogs were not attacked so any analogy based on someone being attacked is just pointless, why even make it?

Your reading comprehension is dire.. I'm not 'pulling OP apart', or 'blaming' her, I'm actually correcting people like you who clearly know nothing about dogs and insist that she her dogs were being "attacked", and she was fully justified in escalating the interaction, when if you knew anything about dogs you'd know the opposite is true.

She was only supposed to pick up her small elderly dogs when they were actually being attacked, not just injured by being trodden on because that’s obviously different didn’t you know?

if you even educated yourself a tiny, tiny amount, you would find out that an aggressive dog attacking is very different to a playful dog accidentally injuring a smaller one, one can be de-escalated easily, the other not at all, ridicule it all you want from your position of complete ignorance, but It IS different, and to pretend otherwise is dangerous.. I'd stick to topics you actually know something about to be honest.

Virtually everyone on the thread is assigning blame. It’s what the thread is essentially about isn’t it? It would be much more accurate to say not that I’m the only one assigning blame, but that YOU are the only one in denial about blame, pulling the OP apart for infringements such as blocking with her leg when, silly her, she was supposed to block with her body, while saying the magic words, and was only supposed to pick up her small elderly dogs when they were actually being attacked, not just injured by being trodden on because that’s obviously different didn’t you know?

You might have a purely factual correct point, that there was a link, as a matter of purely factual cause and effect, between her picking her dogs up and the greyhound jumping up. But why on earth do you have to be so castigating about it, and why deny that you are being so?

On the attack in a dark alley analogy, it was just that, an analogy, not a comparison, so not ‘wrong on so many levels’.

But what would be the point? I'm not blaming OP for what happened, you seem to be irrationally fixated on blame.. I 100% blame the owner of the dog for it being out of control.

I'm telling you if she had reacted differently to the situation she would have got a different outcome.. one in which she wouldn't have been injured by a dog jumping up her, or been forced to kick it to get rid of it.. her reaction is completely in her power to control, unfortunately she chose chaos.

Like I said before, if you own dogs, especially reactive dogs like OP has (and I have) you have to know the best ways to de-escalate unwanted attention, so you can safely remove your dogs, as hard as it is sometimes to control, panicking is the worst thing you can do.

I wish I could start a vote on whether ‘you were injured because you picked your dogs up’ is blaming the OP or not blaming the OP. I’d win it hands down, no question.

Sweet ickly doggy-woggy only wanted to play doesn't cut it if its idea of play is not that of the person it has decided to play with.

Dogs don't have that level of perception, that is why it pisses me off when people let them run up to others, including myself and my dogs.. it is completely negligent and I don't buy this bullshit about 'they only want to 'play' anyone saying that is an idiot.

I have a reactive dog that I keep on a lead, I hate the people who let their dogs run wild, so I'm not sure why you are addressing my as an apologist, I'm really not and have made that very clear.

BUT there is a big difference between a dog wanting to 'play' and being too rough, to a dog being aggressive, and the intent determines the best cause of action to keep your dogs and your dogs safe.

She has indeed, and you choose to accept only the bits that fit your narrative.

Intention is irrelevant to injury. Sweet ickly doggy-woggy only wanted to play doesn't cut it if its idea of play is not that of the person it has decided to play with. Like the labrador that played with my toddler by picking him up and shaking him in her jaws. Such a cute dog that was, meant no harm... And you're right, the owner claimed she just wanted to play.

Get along with your theorising, and keep it for the next time a large out-of-control dog hurtles at you and injures both you and your elderly on-lead dog. I'm sure you will feel no adrenalin at all and do only what you have told OP she ought to have done. Not.

And one of her dogs was injured by it at that point. Impact speed probably between twenty and thirty mph

Now I know you are taking the piss.. none of that actually happened, you sound like a daily mail reporter.

It 'pawed' at her dog and banged it's head, it didn't slam dunk it at 20mph, it's right there in her OP, absolutely no need to make shit up, OP has been very specific about what happened.

YOU are the only one here assigning 'blame' and 'fault', comparing it to rape is wrong on so many levels.

OP was NOT attacked, her dogs, were NOT attacked, she was approached by a playful exuberant dog who didn't know how to play appropriately, there was no aggression or ill intent to hurt.. OP has said that herself.

My advice would be VERY different if OP was attacked or her dogs were attacked.. but that is irrelevant because neither happened, your comparisons are not relevant.

SandyHappy
Her dog was injured because she allowed a playful dog to come face to face with them

I am going to assume you do not realise that a greyhound can run at more than forty miles an hour.

Personally, I can't run that fast, and I doubt OP's small, elderly dogs could either.

So how, exactly, would she NOT "allow" a greyhound to come face to face with them? A gun? A forcefield? Putting part of her body in the way was ineffective; the uncontrolled menace simply ran into it and carried right on regardless. That's in the OP's first post: "it runs at us very fast so I stick my leg in front of my dogs and the dog doesn’t stop runs straight into my leg".

And one of her dogs was injured by it at that point. Impact speed probably between twenty and thirty mph: that's enough to cause serious injury to a child, which is why many towns now have 20mph speed limits within them and the roads immediately at school gates have had for several decades.

She didn't block the dog with her body, that would mean standing in front of it, while saying the command, she said she stuck her leg out and because she didn't turn to walk away the dogs ended up nose to nose, which is when her dog got hurt, she should already have been walking away at that point which is the first thing to do.

I'm not sure what is hard to understand about escalating a situation, it's nothing to do with blame or fault, none of it IS ops 'fault' but she lost the only control she had over the situation as soon as she picked those dogs up.

It's like if a t-rex comes up to you, stand still and they may not notice you, start jumping up and down waving your arms and it may eat you.. neither will be your fault as you can't control the t rex, but you can only control your own actions, to try and ensure your own safety (and the safety of your dogs) it should be your no. 1 priority.. if you don't know the safest way to de-escalate a situation like OP faced you owe it to your animals to learn the very basics of dog psychology, to at the very least learn what NOT to do.

I imagine google has lots of advice about the ways a woman can defend herself against a sex attack in a dark alley as well; don’t go in the dark alley, carry a bunch of keys ready to use as a weapon, scream your head off, whatever, it wouldn’t for one second make it my fault if I froze and didn’t do any of it and got raped.

Advice is one thing, victim blaming is quite another, and @SandyHappy , you’re doing the latter, massively. No amount of googling will change my mind about that, sorry.

No. There were physical injuries because someone allowed their out of control dog to jump all over the OP and her dogs.

Well obviously, but there is nothing OP can do about dogs being off lead and running up to you, when their owner is not near enough to retrieve. It is unfortunately the fact of being a responsible dog owner, it happens to me weekly, they are all tossers the lot of them.

What she can control is her own dogs and her own behaviour, which is what would have stopped this situation from escalating, to her dog being hurt, her being jumped on and hurt, and the dog being kicked.

Agreed.

Also, @SandyHappy , the OP did another thing you suggest, one of the things you say always works; blocking with her body. She did that. It didn’t work. The dog trod on hers, injuring it.

You said earlier that none of this was the OP’s fault, yet here you are again very obviously blaming her for her injuries.

@SandyHappy
"There were physical injuries because she picked her dogs up."

No. There were physical injuries because someone allowed their out of control dog to jump all over the OP and her dogs.

So your last sentence applies:

Not in the slightest, he wasn't attacked, OP said the dog wan't aggressive or attacking, there's no point you assigning more intent than the person who was actually there as it is unhelpful in OPs situation.

Her dog was injured because she allowed a playful dog to come face to face with them, and like a lot of large playful dogs, they have no idea that their 'playing' is unsuitable for smaller, or frail dogs, that's where the owner should be stepping in retrieve (ideally!.. ideally it shouldn't bloody happen in the first place!) or in this case OP should have de-escalated it by moving away, blocking or giving a firm command.

I'm not asking you to take my word for it, it's dog psychology, and there is good reasons why people should only do it as a last resort, I've underlined the relevant part, a quick google will tell you:

Most trainers advise against picking up your dog unless they are very tiny and in imminent danger of being attacked. Lifting them removes their ability to defend themselves or give natural calming signals, and it can trigger the approaching dog’s prey drive, causing them to jump or bite you.

Instead of picking your dog up, the best approach is to act as a barrier and create distance:

Step between the dogs: Use your body to block the approaching dog while keeping a firm, calm stance.

Use vocal commands: Give a sharp, stern "No!" or "Stay!" to deter the approaching dog.

Walk away: If your dog is on a leash, calmly turn around and walk away at a 90° angle.

Then they shouldn't have their unruly dog off leash, should they? Instead of reflecting on his own behaviour, this man lashed out at the OP.

One of her dogs had already been physically injured when she picked it up. I don't think the best thing to do would necessarily have been to leave it on the ground to be jumped on again by a "friendly, didn't mean any harm" thug of a dog, especially since its brother might then have tried to defend it and also been injured.

So your last sentence applies: she picked them up because one had been injured and presumably she preferred the other not to be at risk of injury as well.

There were physical injuries because she picked her dogs up.. google why it is a bad idea if you don't believe me. It was the worst thing she could have done, and it is the ONLY reason the dog was jumping up at her.

The dog shouldn't have been anywhere near her, but it was, and many, many (idiotic) people let their dogs run up to people, she now knows, and has admitted she could have dealt with it more effectively, but panicked in the moment which escalated the dog's behavior, it's very simple dog psychology.. if you have dogs you owe it to them to be learn how to deal with unwanted attention in a calm manor.

I hope if anything happens like this again, OP takes on board the advice a lot of people have given, which is as soon as you see an unwanted dog coming towards you, to turn and walk away from the interested dog, give a firm command to it, or use your body to block the dog from getting access to your dogs.. all of those a very effective strategies that work.. I know this because I am approached by idiots with loose dogs on a weekly basis, I've never harmed a dog in 30 years unless it was attacking.

Standing still and allowing them to come face to face, then picking them up, shouting the owner and lashing out started a chain reaction of excitement which OP, having her hands full of dogs did not have the capacity to de-escalate .. you should only pick up your dogs as a last resort or if they are being attacked.

It’s now been quite rightly pointed out to me that there were indeed physical injuries to the OP.

Anyway, you’ve been itching to get away for a while now, don’t want to keep you, so off you go.

Hey I’m on the OP’s side here! I’d genuinely missed the post where she referred to her injuries (I checked back and couldn’t see any), and was making the point that if there were no injuries on either side it’s inconsistent of @Kariksalomna to point to physical harm to the dog and deny physical harm to the OP, but my point is even stronger now, thanks for the correction.

Completely agree. We don’t all love your dogs and we certainly don’t want them in our faces!

I can’t stand badly trained dogs and their useless owners who make excuses for them. No dog should be off lead if it’s prone to jumping up at other dogs or people, full stop. Either train your dogs or keep them on a lead FFS! You were not in the wrong OP.

Um, the OP wrote "Not that it really matters but I have multiple scratches from the dogs claws on my shoulders/back and the start of a bruise on one shoulder."

I call that physical harm, myself.

And her dog was injured and needed to be looked at by a vet.

I wonder what if any evidence there was that kicking out backwards to get the animal off her back did the greyhound any particular harm, given that the travel on that kick would be about twelve inches.

(Edited to add: sorry, SpanielsGalore, I was writing that as you posted.)