Neighbours angry at DS for snapping back and daughter’s homophobia - hypocrisy??

I think the point was that 13 is quite young for anybody to be discussing crushes regularly with their friends, not because his crushes happen to be male!

The child was 8. He called an 8 year old a stupid bitch and told her to fuck off. That's much worse than a comment she wouldn't have understood.

Not to the 8 year old - to her parents - the “friends”! But I won’t type it out (and I’m fairness probably wouldn’t have said it either - but since my son came out to me homophobia makes me feel visceral physical protective rage. I am trying to feel how I would feel if someone called my young daughter a bitch - I suspect not very well but the protective fury re homophobia seems very raw. Certainly I’ve been called and have called people bitches (infrequently in my life! ) and it certainly hasn’t hit my (or their) inner core like I suspect using a homophobic slur on someone struggling would.

you would also tell an 8 yo she is a stupid bitch and to
fuck off?
-get down with your bad self… you are so righteous and everyone is impressed..

It doesn't even matter if the girl was unreasonable, he definitely was and he's your child.

"She started it" sound pathetic when talking about an 8year old vs a 13yo. When my 1yo hits my 3yo she knows not to hit back but to stop the situation and move away. How does your 13yo not understand the same?

Nobody at all should have been talking about crushes in that circumstance. Doesn’t matter what their sexuality is. 13 to 11 is a huge maturity gap. 13 to 8 far more so. You need to talk to your DS about appropriate conversations by age. That’s nothing to do with sexuality

Sorry OP, but your son is in senior school and this was an 8yr old. She called him 'gay boy' and honestly at 8yrs old probably didn't understand the full meaning.

Your son was way way way out of line and no wonder he hasn't got any friends - either with behaviour and outbursts like that or from just being utterly incapable of reading a social situation.

If he'd have kept his cool and said something like - you don't say things like that, then it would have been her in trouble. Her comment was absolutely unacceptable, she absolutely should have been told off but she's still learning. She's what, Year 4?

For him to come back at you and argue the toss that she'd been horrible to him first - shows an appauling lack of maturity.

He needs help OP - likely with his self-esteem and managing his anger. Seriously. He's 13yrs old. She's 8yrs. Wake up.

Your reaction is bizarre. No wonder they left!! You went back outside to make excuses for a teenage lad - 5yrs older than this primary school girl when he called her a stupid bitch and to f off.....

Brush this under the carpet at your own perile.

Oh that’s a bit much, you’ve no idea where she heard this and I doubt it was the parents, very few adults use that term, so likely school.

Your son was unreasonable to speak to anyone like that. Even if the girl was 13 it would have been unacceptable. He is gay and boy so he should have owned it- "yes i am and there's nothing wrong with it."

He needs to learn not escalate. I bet he wouldn't have jumped up and sworn at an older boy would he- he picked an easy target.

Also she's 8, why on earth is he discussing sexual desires with or around her?! You need to teach him what's acceptable conversation with small children.

Yes I'd say 11. Either way an older boy telling her to fuck off and she's a stupid bitch is disgusting.

I have sons no daughters so I'm not anti boy here but I'd be disgusted in my sons if they'd ever used that kind of language to a little kid.

She’s 8, she doesn’t fully understand, I’m not sure I’d class this as homophobia due to her young sge. I feel your sons behaviour was though completely unacceptable in response to it, and the language used not ok, and at 13 h4 does understand this.

i feel you’re being defensive over your son , and won’t accept this little girl didn’t mean the level of harm you’ve embedded in this. And as such I think there is no way for the friendship to continue.

my position is your son needs to apologise, explain he was triggered, and that he accepts she’s 8 and likely didn’t fully understand. I’d then expect her to say she didn’t mean to offend to this extent snd she’s sorry, she likely has not encountered homosexuality before or is it something much in her orbit. Not at 8,

snd I will also state my child is gay. And you’re doing your son no favours in accepting this type of behaviour.

I’d have responded the same as your son tbh! YANBU

They are not more worldly now than we were. Strange language, puts adult understanding on to small children
This is a teaching moment. Little kids don't come with a preset moral vocabulary
You explain gay if they don't fully get it. Explain why it's offensive. Chide them for teasing. Ask any questions, explain why the other party was upset, and then you move on.
But what you don't get to do is teach them that it's okay for teenage boys to berate them and call them names. He could have called her anything, but went straight to bitch
That tells me a lot, because he is old enough to know better
Bullying is a campaign. At 8 they pick on differences. Could be appearance/social/anything. That's where the school come in. Totally different circumstances and not acceptable. But not one offhand comment from a much smaller child

I'd end the friendship. I think the language the girl used has probably come from the parents. I'd be mortified if my child was acting like that and would be pulling then up on it rather than laying all the blame on your DS.

I agree. I would want them to apologise, not just your son.

So what would you have said to an 8 yo that was worse than “bitch” and “fuck off”..?

I have an 8 year old and I'm fairly confident he wouldn't say something like that (and if he did we'd be having words) but the gulf in maturity between 8 and 13 is extremely wide. 8 year olds don't fully understand these things, being primary school children who still spend most of their time playing with toys.

A 13 year old using a misogynistic slur to a much younger little girl? I'd be so ashamed of him.

Personally I think using homophobic insults is worse than calling someone a bitch. The two children should have been made to apologise to each other and seeing as the other couple didn’t think that necessary I wouldn’t be rushing to have them back. Yes he reacted badly but also having a gay 13 year old struggling with friendships the words I immediately wanted to type out about your “friends” were a lot worse than what he said so I can understand how easy it is to lose the head (I’ve calmed down now).

I’d think it weird for any 13yo to be talking about crushes to an 8yo. They’re hugely different ages and every 13yo I know (I’m a secondary school teacher) would consider primary school children little kids (unlike how grown up they consider themselves!). However, he wasn’t talking to an 8yo, she overheard. He had done zero wrong at that point.

OP, do you think this points to a bigger problem? If he’s been struggling with friendships due to homophobia he may have lashed out in this instance because it had all built up. I’d have a serious chat to him about why he was so angry at a little kid.

I can understand DS being upset after being insulted, but his language was extremely harsh in return to a young girl who is in the early stages of primary school.

It is good that he stood up for himself, but could go it in a more "taking the moral high road" fashion, rather than vicious abuse, but as he is young himself we can understand.

I think the problem here is that all of these kids are really too young to be talking about sexuality and crushes, especially a girl of 8 (what's that? Primary 3 or 4?)

Young kids do not have a proper understand of sexuality - especially the more complex / possible controversial aspects, like homosexuality - and so its hardly surprising that they do not fully appreciate that its wrong to mock someone's sexuality.

Your son had just been put through an emotional assault for being gay by an 8 year old girl who was prejudiced, arrogant and callous. There is absalutely no wonder she got a full on reaction from him.

Then everyone backs the girl up, jumps to her defense because she is 'only 8'.

How else should he have reacted? He is 13 so he is still young himself your DS was defensive and how else was he supposed to react?

She should have been pulled up about her prejudice and told to apologise to your DS.

Whereas hearing 13 yo boys talk about the “crushes” they have is generally hormone fuelled, sexually orientated and very misogynistic from what I’ve had the misfortune to overhear!

So at what age would her comment be unacceptable and she would need to apologise? 9, 10,11 or older?

Someone taught her that gay boy was a slur, maybe at school. We know this because of the context she used it, so she knows it’s wrong.

Why hasn’t she been corrected? Either by a teacher or her parents?

If I had an 8 year old using that phrase, she would have been told off before the OP’s son had an opportunity to say anything. It is not acceptable.

At 8 my son and his friend were being bullied for being gay just because they were close friends and both boys.

I guess that wasn't homophobic at all and the other boys didn't know what they were saying? Children are a lot more aware than they were in the past.

I absolutely guarantee you would not think twice about a thirteen year old girl talking about a crush she had on a boy in front of an eight year old.