To think this isnt normal child behaviour?

PANDA as a way in - PDA Society https://share.google/Vs98OjjDYpQsM0RN3 here are some strategies you could try.

She sounds ND and the tics could develop into Tourette’s - reach out for help!

Hi. I would definitely explore PDA. My daughter has it - it is quite hard to get it formally diagnosed but she was diagnosed twice with it so I am pretty familiar with it and believe that pda parenting strategies could really help you even while you wait for her to be seen.

There are some pda kids who are exceptionally "good" at school - often they are just keeping their heads down and doing no work, but if they aren't causing problems in class, they can sail under the radar for several years. It wasn't until year 4 that school started to realise.

They try so hard at school to be good that it all spills out with you.

The sensory issues you mention are classic autistic spectrum and pda is a type of autism.

It can seem daunting at first but main thing is to understand her needs and work out how flexible you can be really eg clothes. Also read up on pda strategies. It's really all anxiety based and can be helped by keeping her anxiety low.

How old are you? This sounds like something my incredibly SEND-ignorant mother in her 80s might say.

I think as many others have described, none of what you are describing is normal Or average behaviour for 5yr old.

you need to speak to both the school and your GO fairly quickly to get the ball rolling for her.

you need to focus on advocating for her now when she can’t describe herself what’s going on and she can’t ask for help. Write it all down and take it with you when you speak with them and follow through.

Some of what you are describing sounds very much like Tourette Syndrome. Often Autism/ADHD can run with Tourettes, but not always.

It's entirely possible your daughter is masking her behaviour at school, which is why the school haven't noticed anything.

You need to make a GP appointment asap.

I really feel this. I am really struggling with my autistic son’s behaviour at the moment and I feel like I’ve lost him. I miss him. I miss the bond we had. I feel so much guilt for not being able to be the mother he needs. And I too hide from him at times, I have to to try and cling on to any last remaining piece of sanity I might have left. So when you say ‘I miss her’, I really feel that.

Id set up a hidden camera at home to record ticks. Take it to the gp and get them to look at it.

If I were a mother, I wouldn't be posting online, and certainly not this many issues! Get her to a GP now or go by yourself and describe what's happening. Sounds like she needs medication or medical intervention, but none of us can tell you.

look up OCD - kids get it young even though lots of people will say they don't until they're older. they do, it's just people often don't recognise it. Often at this age death anxiety can be a cause. Not saying it is that but it is something to think about.

Look up gelastic seizures - again, not diagnosing her with epilepsy! just with the uncontrolled laughter thought it is worth having a quick read and checking it doesn't ring bells https://www.epilepsy.com/what-is-epilepsy/seizure-types/gelastic-and-dacrystic-seizures

Tourrettes, obviously been mentioned already. It's the vocal tics that sound quite extreme. The sniffing etc sound quite typical for some kids (do they go away after a few weeks and get replaced with another one? and do they go away temporarily while she is distracted?

Autism and ADHD go along with all of these and separately too.

Is she happy at school? All these behaviours sound linked to stress and kids really don't say 'im having a tough time at school'. in fact often they skip out looking totally happy, because theyre now with you and feeling safe. if she spent all her time with you and is now at school that is a huge change. 6 hours for a kid of that age is so long. as she's masking at school too, that is interesting. See how the summer holidays go - if by the end of 6 weeks those behaviours have toned right down but when she goes back they ramp back up again you have a good clue if she's not really feeling that emotionally safe there.

eta what does the doctor think? and what does chat gpt or whatnot suggest?

You clearly feel there is something wrong. A bunch of strangers can’t really diagnose her though (although of course they always enjoy the opportunity).

Take her to the doctor.

If your child is neurodivergent, they may prefer routine and predictability. That basically makes this time of year at school a nightmare for them. All the changes to routine other kids enjoy, eg sports day, tours etc, may have the opposite effect on her. Add to that she’ll just be tired by end of term, as all kids tend to be. So it wouldn’t be at all surprising if you have been seeing more extreme behaviour lately. This tends to get easier as the school years go on and they realise that these events happen every year and therefore find it less stressful.

there’s a saying “All behaviour is communication”. It may help a little to remember; your daughter is still in there, the difficult behaviour is her cry for help. She just doesn’t understand what she’s feeling or how to communicate it. I know how difficult it can be to remember that when you almost can’t recognize your own child but she’ll come back to you.

Tics in children don’t necessarily means Tourette’s, but they are associated with ADHD or OCD.

The GP is the best option now.

Hi yes of course. The things that stood out was how you say your child responds to no. My son has PDA which is a profile of autism and struggles with anything deemed a demand. It took years and years for me to realise that it wasn’t defiance or ‘bad behaviour’ but his brain perceiving threat as his nervous system would be in survival mode hence the meltdowns and un-regulation.
My son also had numerous ticks that came and went - more pronounced during periods of excitement or anxiety. He has grown out of these now though. He would often chew things when little and still bites his nails today which is sensory seeking. Does your DD have issues with clothing? My DS was also like a Duracell bunny at times with endless energy - which was exhausting! He would be very impulsive too and I would have to try my best to distract him if he got fixated on doing a negative behaviour. I am not a Pyschologist to assess your DD, but have undertaken so many courses over the years as well as spoken to numerous health care professionals (!) but I do suggest you speak to your GP. Keeping pushing OP as my biggest regret is not getting a diagnosis when my DS was younger (he had 2 failed referrals during primary school as he masked - his behavioural response was flight or freeze at school and fight at home which was his safe space!) Good luck and feel free to message me if you want any more advice x

Many children do know the correct names for body parts, you know.

I would book a gps apt ans your first port of call and see if you can surreptitiously record some of the things she is doing regarding the tics so you can show the behaviours you mean.
Physical tics are not uncommon in young children, when I worked in a a school there was one that would sniff, another that would throat clear and another that would yawn.
Our staff training always taught us to ignore them, not draw attention to them and continue as if they weren’t doing them.
Tiredness and anxiety made them worse, you may find that because it’s coming up the end of term your little one is totally exhausted. My 6 year old is totally done with school already and he’s got 3 weeks to go, so I’m just trying to jolly him through it but he is super tired and grumpy.

I’m a psychologist. I wouldn’t use the word “normal” anyway for anyone, but no, this is not typical behaviour.
On the tiny bit of info it sounds like neurodivergence; either autism or Tourette’s or both… these often come with ODD.
Book in with the GP and ask for a right to choose referral. If it’s open on your area then the waiting list could be months to 5 years. If you have the money, pay for a psychologist (not a random on the internet make sure they are a clinical, health or educational psychologist with the HCPC) and go through the assessment. It could be done in a month or two if no waiting list. It should cost around £1400-2k. It’s a lot of work hence the fee. It needs multiple psychologists to complete.

Remember that the diagnosis won’t change her behaviour at all. Remember also it’s not a behavioural difficulties. It’s an impulse/ difference in her brain. Just as we’d not expect a child with dyslexia to “just read quicker” we can’t expect a child with Tourette’s to “just stop saying the words we don’t like” and so it’s about managing the triggers more so than the outcome.

Good luck

I Swear is a well produced film about tourettes. Have you watched it op? Also an accompanying documentary.

There was also a girl on educating Yorkshire. I've seen another documentary somewhere too

I mentioned these as its not often people see it in life. I remember Pete from Big Brother really raised awareness.

Apologies if you already are well informed on it, but I thought worth suggesting.

This is a better description. The writer is an adult who is insightful into her own behaviours. I've found her quite an interesting read

That is pretty common with highly neurodivergent girls especially, it’s called “masking”. She may be overwhelmed by all the social and other demands of school but can manage to hide it until she’s home in her safe place.
I know it doesn’t feel like it but all the strange behaviour at home is actually a compliment to you because it means she feels safe enough to decompress with you. But it’s also a sign she’s overstimulated/destressed, and of course awful for you.
So you should definitely seek out help, ask the GP for a referral. A lot of GPs know very little about neurodivergence, so if they try to fob you off with “kids will be kids”, don’t accept that nonsense. Wishing you the very best of luck. It’s a cliche to say that “it’s a journey” but in this case it really is. You will be amazed how quickly you will become an expert when it’s for your child’s sake.
The good news is that with many neurodivergent kids, once you know how to arrange their routine to avoid them getting overwhelmed, things can improve dramatically.
Be prepared that you may have to be very direct with the school and not sugarcoat anything to get them to understand her needs because people don’t tend to believe what they don’t see with their own eyes.

Sorry, I meant to add that the "weird laughing" can be a fight or flight behaviour. DD occasionally does it but in her case it's more like inappropriate fooling around. When she was your DD's age, for instance, attempts to force her to read would lead to "fool" behaviour like going all floppy or coming up with continuous avoidance strategies like holding the book upside down or back to front. Sounds quite funny now but my god it is irritating and yes, embarrassing in public.

I was also thinking masking. Have you spoken to the teachers about how she copes with demands at school? If she is told no there how does she respond?
Its hard to say based on her age whether it is masking or not. I worked with a child with autism and PDA profile and there is no way in the lower years she could mask it. If she didn't want to do anything she would just say no I don't want to 😂. Giving choices is what worked with her in the classroom.
What are the consequences when she hurts you? Is she given warnings and time to reflect or do you let it go? That needs to be dealt with, saying ouch when she hurts you.

About the Founder — Sensory Smart https://share.google/3CDXvCZEXWG8PIYuK

This is a good website for things like seamless socks and non itchy school uniform. I don't have any sensory differences yet these high temperatures are making me so uncomfortable in clothes. Your poor DD is possibly really sweaty and itchy which would make all the other distress behaviors worse.

She'll pick up on the fact you're scared of her. You needcto be the parent, because ND or not she's playing you for attention