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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that NT children miss out in school inclusion policies.

288 replies

empee47 · 06/07/2026 16:45

To think that inclusion policies in primary schools are almost never geared to helping academic, NT children get the best out of their education? They’re almost always designed to help the underdog - not denying this is necessary - but those at the top end of the spectrum don’t get the chance to shine as bright as they might otherwise do.

OP posts:
C0dename · 06/07/2026 18:59

Octavia64 · 06/07/2026 18:58

Maybe,

but those nt people who use wheelchairs often find many places not wheelchair accessible

those nt people who are hearing impaired or have no hearing at all find very few people know BSL and very few organisations meet their needs

etc etc.

And your point is?

Octavia64 · 06/07/2026 18:58

butimamonstersaidthemonster · 06/07/2026 18:51

The whole world is designed for nt people.

Maybe,

but those nt people who use wheelchairs often find many places not wheelchair accessible

those nt people who are hearing impaired or have no hearing at all find very few people know BSL and very few organisations meet their needs

etc etc.

BravasPatatas · 06/07/2026 18:57

LathkillDale · 06/07/2026 18:46

This just another SEN bashing thread in another guise, to persuade the population money is wasted on SEN children to soften the people up, for the removal of accountability and children’s legal rights to an education in the government’s recent proposals.

💯

BravasPatatas · 06/07/2026 18:56

empee47 · 06/07/2026 17:39

I would expect an inclusion policy to include all children. The spectrum I am referring to is academic ability ie at the top of the ability range if you object to the word ‘spectrum.’

Edited

My daughter is academically very very able. She got a scaled score of 120 in both her reading and maths SATs, plus GD in writing. She is impeccably behaved.
She also has ASD and requires support.

PoppyseedPurple · 06/07/2026 18:56

This thread is ableist and offensive to parents of children with SEND in the 93% of parents who can’t afford to, or don’t want to pay for private education.

twinkletoesimnot · 06/07/2026 18:56

DelphiniumBlue · 06/07/2026 17:52

Don't worry, teachers have to demonstrate what they are doing for more able children as well as those with SEN. They are expected to ensure that all children make progress. It's just a little bit difficult when there is only one adult to 30 kids, you can't teach and make sure every child across the range of the abilities can access the lesson and deal with another child's meltdown whilst simultaneously trying to deal with the poo accident on the carpet. Well, you can, but no one is going to make much progress. It's not as if the class is full of 28 NT children who will sit quietly whilst the ND issues are dealt with. In any one class in my ( leafy green suburb) primary school, you'll find maybe one or 2 children with autism, 4-6 with ADHD of varying degrees, one or 2 with GLD ( needing more support to help them learn) 2 or 3 with dyslexia who need additional input for reading and writing tasks, and maybe 5-6 more able children who can help themselves when pointed towards additional resources which will stretch them. In some schools, there are many more children who need additional support.
Some children need more help than others. They don't need equal time- some children are very independent in their learning and pick things up very quickly and can practise at their own speed, getting support from their peers if needed, or looking things up. But some children, even in Y6, can't write a sentence without an adult sitting next to them keeping them on track. These kids have such different needs.
The sad thing is the that funding is so minimal that resources have to be directed to those who need it most. Yes, it would be great to have extra stimulation for the more able, but on the whole they can motivate themselves.

I really think that most people do not get how pared back school funding is.
As an example, I've prepared scaffolded worksheets this week to support some children, but they need to be printed and then glued into their books. So if we are out of printer ink and paper, and there are no glue sticks left, and the new exercise books we need haven't been ordered yet because there is a moratorium on ordering anything because the school is 100k in the red,( we've been told to wait till September for new supplies) how do I make that work?We've had 2 members of staff longterm sick, that has cost over 100k, ( or 3-4 TAs if you want to look at it that way.) There is no money there to pay for the recommendations on EHCPs, that is why schools are not encouraging parents to apply, as it will cost the school money they have not got to comply.
So if this is something you feel strongly about, please contact your MP. Schools need more funding. Soon there will not be enough teachers, they are leaving in droves. The expectations are so unrealistic, nobody is going to want take that on unless something changes.

Spot on!!!

C0dename · 06/07/2026 18:53

backformoreofthesame · 06/07/2026 17:18

I can confirm that there is not sufficient resources available to look after all children’s educational needs properly and most schools it seems focus on getting as many children as possible to the required minimum standard which means children already at that standard get neglected , or used as free educators “to consolidate their learning by teaching others “ bollocks

and then they get bored and disruptive

when they should be developing at their natural rate and achieving far more than they are allowed to

How do you confirm this exactly? Children have to show they’ve made progress from key stages so those that achieve high in KS1 have to in KS2 ie teachers can’t just put their feet up with the high achievers. Also the standards for expected and greater depth are pretty high

AgnesMcDoo · 06/07/2026 18:52

LathkillDale · 06/07/2026 18:46

This just another SEN bashing thread in another guise, to persuade the population money is wasted on SEN children to soften the people up, for the removal of accountability and children’s legal rights to an education in the government’s recent proposals.

It certainly is.

Ableism is widely tolerated on MN. Along with ageism.

butimamonstersaidthemonster · 06/07/2026 18:51

The whole world is designed for nt people.

twinkletoesimnot · 06/07/2026 18:51

AnneLovesGilbert · 06/07/2026 17:07

Everyone loses out when inclusion means children who can’t cope in school are forced to be there and low and high level disruption and violence stop the majority of the class from getting the education they’re entitled to. So many teachers say they’re juggling multiple children with very high levels of additional need that they struggle to teach the basics never mind providing extra work or guidance for very academic children.

Torally agree with this.
I am basically fire fighting at all times and those that can get none of me. I feel terrible about this.

mintleavesandthyme · 06/07/2026 18:49

’inclusion’ I think is very difficult. I have NT and ND children and our ‘inclusive’ school has a system in which I think all the children can survive the school experience but not thrive. My very academic NT child spent years babysitting and teaching a child she was forced to sit next to as a behaviour management tool. My ND child is bored, masking all day and doesn’t get any teaching tailored to her.

i think we need to accept a horses for courses approach of different schools will suit different children and stop trying to force school to meet all needs all the time.

Private tutoring is the only thing you can do to help them

Thechaseison71 · 06/07/2026 18:48

backformoreofthesame · 06/07/2026 17:18

I can confirm that there is not sufficient resources available to look after all children’s educational needs properly and most schools it seems focus on getting as many children as possible to the required minimum standard which means children already at that standard get neglected , or used as free educators “to consolidate their learning by teaching others “ bollocks

and then they get bored and disruptive

when they should be developing at their natural rate and achieving far more than they are allowed to

Completely agree

LathkillDale · 06/07/2026 18:46

This just another SEN bashing thread in another guise, to persuade the population money is wasted on SEN children to soften the people up, for the removal of accountability and children’s legal rights to an education in the government’s recent proposals.

PoppyseedPurple · 06/07/2026 18:45

MandemChickenShop · 06/07/2026 18:31

most mainstream comprehensives will focus on getting as many children to at least a 5.

for academic children that will get a 7 anyway, they won't be pushed as much.

this is where selective schools, grammar or private, come in as the cohort is more able, there's more competition and greater expectation get the 9s.

not so much to do with NT or not

Nonsense - my DC got 14 x grade 9s in a “good” comprehensive school and 4 x A* + EPQ in a state sixth form. Excellent teachers throughout. Also, high achievers raise the Progress 8 score so there is an incentive to stretch more able pupils.

Andy Burnham went to state schools and looks likely to be the next PM.

ToBali · 06/07/2026 18:44

Can you give some specific examples of what inclusion policies you disagree with and what it is that you think is lacking? I think there is such a wide range of things, SEND, Neuro diversity, disabilities, behavioural support, well being, different ability levels, all being discussed, covering such a wide range of situations that we need specifics.

To me, inclusion isn't about kids reaching their full potential, that's a parents job, but it is about them being able to access the curriculum that is being provided.

Do you disagree with a school being wheelchair accessible? Can a child with vision issues be given a worksheet in a larger font or sat near the front of the class? What about a child who lost their hearing due to meningitis, can they be given support to catch up with phonics? If a child is severely dyslexic but otherwise academically able can they have support to read a maths worksheet? Is a TA being trained in administering an epi pen a waste of time? If your child broke their arm the day before their GCSE exams would you expect them to be given a scribe?

Oliveoy · 06/07/2026 18:43

This has nothing inherently to do with inclusion policies or whether a child is NT or ND.

DD is autistic and absolutely sailed through primary school without intervention. Always working at greater depth, "top table", "lead learner" etc. She's now at a grammar where there are plenty of ND girls who I imagine had a similar experience at primary.

Equally I highly doubt that all the less able children at primary were ND. Some kids are late bloomers and some just aren't very bright.

Do I think however that bright children aren't stretched at primary? Yeah, I do. But please don't make it a divisive matter by bringing neurodivergence into it.

HJBeans · 06/07/2026 18:39

Gah - this again. Many ND kids are also in the top tier academically and struggle more than NT kids with disruptive behaviour. Disruptive behaviour can occur because some ND kids have meltdowns, but it just as easily - and I’d argue more commonly - happens because NT kids are misbehaving.

Do teachers need more support / better policies to prevent disruptive behaviour getting in the way of teaching and learning? Absolutely. Is this universally about those pesky ND kids stealing focus from hardworking gifted NT kids? Not at all.

This debate has been had time and again and it’s run through each time with lazy stereotypes about ND kids and it’s really starting to piss me off. My hardworking, academically gifted, and 100% non-disruptive ND kid has been absolutely terrorized by badly behaved NT kids but I am not on here whinging NT kids shouldn’t be allowed to be in mainstream schools.

We all want better school environments where our kids are supported and can learn and disruptive behaviour is minimised. Can we not focus on that instead of lazily targeting groups of kids who already have enough challenges facing them? What positive thing does a post like this do outside of giving people a chance to feel alright about their prejudices against ND kids? What is it making better for anyone’s kids or for any of the parents on here?

PoppyseedPurple · 06/07/2026 18:39

Jumbaree · 06/07/2026 17:21

They have a legal duty to properly stretch gifted and talented children and my child’s state secondary had no interest in this whatsoever. There’s a reason why most PMs went to private school…

My DC went to a state primary, state comprehensive school, state sixth form and achieved the highest possible grades. There would have been no advantage in paying for private schools or tutors.

Sylviaplathlives · 06/07/2026 18:35

I will clarify, I’m NOT talking about the child that needs hearing aids, dyslexia, dyscalculia etc. I’m talking extreme SEND - the non verbal, autistic child, or the violent child that leaves staff bruised and bleeding daily but cannot have any consequence because of “inclusion”.

BuckChuckets · 06/07/2026 18:34

My ND child is excelling academically on his own, we're lucky in that he doesn't need support from SEND.

@empee47 all children have different abilities whether they're NT or ND - you may have to accept that yours is academically middling or below, it's not necessarily the fault of anything in place for other children. Of course your school may just be unsupportive in general, but that's nothing to do with inclusion policies or other kids.

Sylviaplathlives · 06/07/2026 18:31

SleepingStandingUp · 06/07/2026 18:25

Op what is it your bright, a grieving, neurotypical child isn't getting that other less deserving, in your opinion, children are?

Perhaps she is miffed her child won’t reach their academic potential because of the lack of resources due to the amount of time effort and focus taken and directed to a handful of children that absolutely should not be in mainstream but due to the way successive governments have stripped back specialist provision, they now monopolise teaching time. It’s not fair on the child with SEN, the other kids or teachers.

MandemChickenShop · 06/07/2026 18:31

most mainstream comprehensives will focus on getting as many children to at least a 5.

for academic children that will get a 7 anyway, they won't be pushed as much.

this is where selective schools, grammar or private, come in as the cohort is more able, there's more competition and greater expectation get the 9s.

not so much to do with NT or not

TheGreatDownandOut · 06/07/2026 18:30

Brownwithnopezazz · 06/07/2026 17:25

Inclusion policies are absolutely toxic to the majority, and an obstacle to excellence. My children’s only negative memories of school are due to pupils who simply shouldn’t have been there. It’s
palpably absurd to favour the few at the expense of the many. When is this drivel going to stop? It’s truly surreal to hear how a child has yelled and walloped his way through the day at school, every day, so he can be included. Why don’t we tell the truth, that these inclusive policies are damaging.
WTF is so wrong with going somewhere tailored to your behaviour, instead of putting a fox in with pigeons, your fingers in your ears, and singing lalala, isn’t it lovely!

I completely agree.

I remember a thread on here a while ago where the OP’s child had been touched inappropriately by another student who had some kind of learning difficulty. Apparently, he had done this to quite a few other students. MN came out in their droves to suggest that the OP should remove her child if she’s worried about her getting touched that way. Almost as if the other kid had more right to be there.

My own DS has someone in his class that regularly acts out, starts throwing things at other pupils and at their teacher. Sometimes, the disruption is that bad they have to move all of the children out of the room and wait for her to calm down.

Thats before we take in to account the various and often competing EHCPs that are supposed to be met. Child A can’t be subjected to unnecessary noise, Child B needs to stim constantly, child C needs to get up and wander around every 5 minutes, everybody needs their work printing on different coloured paper. When do teachers get the time to actually teach?!

Octavia64 · 06/07/2026 18:29

Huh?

inclusion is about allowing children with disabilities to access mainstream.

it used to be the case that if a kid was in a wheelchair or similar they couldn’t go to mainstream no matter how bright they were.

inclusion as it started off was about making sure every child had access to an education.

the vast, vast majority of children who are in mainstream as a result of inclusion are NT but have other disabilities such as Down’s syndrome, cerebral palsy, epilepsy, etc.

many of them are of average or above average ability and previously would have been in special school simply because mainstream wasn’t wheelchair accessible/Deaf friendly etc.

these days teachers can wear microphones that go straight into a kids hearing aid.

SleepingStandingUp · 06/07/2026 18:25

Op what is it your bright, a grieving, neurotypical child isn't getting that other less deserving, in your opinion, children are?