To think that NT children miss out in school inclusion policies.

You’re a teacher and don’t know that 67% to 73% of UK undergraduates admitted to Oxford and Cambridge come from state schools. Within Russel group unis 70-75% of state pupils are from the state sector.

Private schools are over represented ( for several reasons)as only 6% of children go to private schools so really it should be 94% of Oxbridge undergraduates that are from privates schools but state schools are clearly doing an excellent job at getting their pupils to the best unis with a lot less resources.

Pupil referral unit. We need zero tolerance. There are no consequences for bad behaviour in Scotland (where I am), the kids know they have full control and run riot. It’s a disaster.

We need to fund these schools to be opened, obviously. There is no other option.

Many non SEN children disrupt classrooms. Where should they go?
My SEN child has never disrupted a classroom.

This thread is about not solutions to the problems of children with challenging behaviour, whether due to trauma, multiple deprivations or unmet SEN. It’s trying to whip up resentment towards SEN children.

Divide and conquer, to get the population fighting among themselves, having whipped them up into scape goating, so they don’t notice the real issue is the transfer of assets from ordinary people to the ultra wealthy, while the majority become wage slaves in a neo feudal system.

Actually I think you’re wrong. The more academically able children might not benefit from ‘inclusion’ policies but schools do stretch and do extra things for the most able. I know of one school where some children are taken out of assemblies once a week to stretch their writing skills

What's wrong with forest school? I think that's very useful for any DC. My 6 year old points out poisonous plants to me on walks now.

There are 2 DC who have 1 to 1s for SEN in DS1s classroom and neither of them are in the least bit violent.

Where would you like these children to go? Or is it just a case of you don't want it to be your problem? Should disruptive children be in a SEN school? Should children who are not violent but do have special needs be in a SEN school? Yes they should be but there are no spaces. There aren't enough special schools. The criteria to get a space is ridiculous.
Blame the bloody government that shut the schools down and decided all kids could be included in mainstream but don't blame the children.
You are lucky, your DD can have extra coaching, you can help her. Children with SEN don't have that luxury.

This is such a well phrased post.

I was about to say that schools need to be careful that they don't take a lowest common denominator approach. It's vital that every child is stretched.

But you put it so much more subtly.

There are two issues here:

Inclusion done well can benefit all children, but many (I'd actually say most) lack the skills, resources or both to do it well or even to a passable level, and it becomes a waterbed - the disadvantage and relative harm just constantly shifts around, and as one problem is addressed it creates a new one.

The other issue, which is separate, is that particularly at primary there are almost no incentives to stretch high performing children, so scarce resources are almost inevitably put elsewhere.

Some like to paint the latter as a "no harm done" impact as the children in question will be meeting minimum standards, but there are two issues with this: first, is the purpose of education to help every child achieve their potential, or is it to get everyone to a basic standard; and second, it ignores the fact that a bright child is also a whole person with emotions and needs, and a school experience that doesn't meet those needs can have a significant impact.

Exactly! What about then and their rights to a fitting education? No one cares because even if they’re totally ignored they’re bright enough to hit the average performance needed..

Inclusion means bringing excluded children in. Not directing those resources at children who are already included.

I guess you also espouse ‘all lives matter’ as well.

Your children are bright and NT - they have the fucking world at their feet. And you want the world to provide yet more for them.

Sadly most schools do not have sufficient facilities to allow full access for most physically disabled children. I have only seen one primary school which had a lift ( out of about 10-15 that I have worked in as a supply or more permanently).There are no children in my school ( approx 400 pupils) with epilepsy, Downs, or in a wheelchair. I have seen one blind child in a mainstream school. It's hard enough to accommodate a child with a broken arm or leg - if they can't go out at playtime/lunchtime, who is going to look after them? You can't leave them by themselves in a classroom. There are not enough staff to manage conditions like diabetes properly - I remember a horrible scenario where the class teacher ( NQT) was trying to deal with a newly diagnosed child whose condition required frequent monitoring, then analysis and sometimes action. The child was getting very upset, the teacher was trying to do the necessary ( testing, adjusting insulin etc) in private ( the cloakroom outside the classroom so not very private at all) while the rest of the class ran amok. There should have been 2 adults in that room all the time, but there weren't enough staff to cover that.
Schools need proper funding so they can staff to levels where all children are safe and making progress. I am still kept awake at night by thoughts of the children who we could not help enough, of the ones who left primary school functionally illiterate, whose maths wasn't good enough for them to be able to work out change or read a timetable or budget for their shopping. How are they going to function in secondary school, or in life? We are creating an underclass, the prison population of the future if we don't take steps to address gaps/huge holes in learning at an early stage. Investment now would save massive sums in the future.

Of course SEN kids deserve an education, but not in a classroom with other children if they are going to disrupt. Surely that’s obvious?

What about the right kids who are not pushed to achieve? Same 93% of parents who can't do private school..

If being bright means being ignored then many of the kids will get disillusioned and be bored hence thinking of mischief to do

What sort of school environment do you want for your child?

Parents can do a lot but a bright, engaging, interested child who is bored in school can be completely switched off, start misbehaving, refusing to go to school etc. I've got one!!

How can they ‘access the curriculum’ when the teacher spends the whole time trying to prevent the kids that lash out from throwing chairs and throttling classmates? What do you suggest the teacher does? Keep teaching and ignore it?

They couldn’t stay in a state school due to being a target of repeated assaults (yes the kids were charged with assault and no that made no difference whatsoever. My child was beaten up date after day). They now attend private. The difference in learning is truly staggering. All it takes is removing the violent and disruptive children and guess what? The teacher can teach in peace and the children can learn in peace.

We’re not private school fans. We were backed into a corner. But it’s an incredible education and worth every penny, simply because state schools cannot educate children properly due to the disruptions from kids who shouldn’t be there. Every child should be able to learn in peace and safety but they can’t

I think a lot of this could be solved with smaller class sizes and some extra TAs. Oh a bigger schools to allow for quieter/less densely occupied spaces.

but instead the government are closing small schools and forcing more and more kids into classrooms.

i know the teachers at our school can’t cope, they are quite honest about it. But they get no help, no support, no TAs

Don’t be ridiculous!

The thing is, currently no one is benefiting- no one.
And it’s going to get worse.

I think I get where you’re coming from, OP. Maybe the results of DEI being pushed and pushed to extremes, as we’re seeing in other public services nowadays.

Walk in the shoes of a parent of an autistic child op and know the unbelievable agony of seeing your child treated like a piece of rubbish to be be away by the system.

My bright kind and lovely autistic 12 year old has been out of school for months because her mainstream secondary were unwilling to give her the support she needed. I jave to watch her every day missing out.

She finds school a terrifying place without support.

You are ignorant and over privileged if you cant see the immense injustice faced by sen children trying jusy to keep their heads above water in a mainstream system