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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that NT children miss out in school inclusion policies.

288 replies

empee47 · 06/07/2026 16:45

To think that inclusion policies in primary schools are almost never geared to helping academic, NT children get the best out of their education? They’re almost always designed to help the underdog - not denying this is necessary - but those at the top end of the spectrum don’t get the chance to shine as bright as they might otherwise do.

OP posts:
empee47 · 06/07/2026 21:47

ProudCat · 06/07/2026 21:39

At the top end of the spectrum of what? The spectrum refers to the autism, if you ain't autistic, you're not on the spectrum.

And if they're not shining as bright, and they're NT, then they just ain't the brightest.

You can use the word spectrum in many contexts, not just when it refers to autism. Substitute it for range and you may understand better.

OP posts:
empee47 · 06/07/2026 21:45

LathkillDale · 06/07/2026 19:25

This thread is about not solutions to the problems of children with challenging behaviour, whether due to trauma, multiple deprivations or unmet SEN. It’s trying to whip up resentment towards SEN children.

Divide and conquer, to get the population fighting among themselves, having whipped them up into scape goating, so they don’t notice the real issue is the transfer of assets from ordinary people to the ultra wealthy, while the majority become wage slaves in a neo feudal system.

That was never the intention of this thread. The thrust of the thread is in the title!

OP posts:
ProudCat · 06/07/2026 21:39

empee47 · 06/07/2026 16:45

To think that inclusion policies in primary schools are almost never geared to helping academic, NT children get the best out of their education? They’re almost always designed to help the underdog - not denying this is necessary - but those at the top end of the spectrum don’t get the chance to shine as bright as they might otherwise do.

At the top end of the spectrum of what? The spectrum refers to the autism, if you ain't autistic, you're not on the spectrum.

And if they're not shining as bright, and they're NT, then they just ain't the brightest.

Buttons0522 · 06/07/2026 21:35

Agree OP, I’ve thought this since my eldest started school. I have nothing against learners who are below expected standards getting the support they need, but it does feel like a bit of a race to the bottom. I disagree that it’s solely down to being ND or NT though.

Clear example was reception class, DS and his phonics group had completed the phonics ‘sets’ for EYFS so began repeating what they already knew, not learning anything new, rather than moving onto the Y1 phonics scheme. One of his peers’ parent worked at the school and challenged why the group had stopped learning and got the response of ‘but they do that in Y1’. They replied that if they were below target then they’d get extra support, what extra support is available to stretch the more able? The next week the group had moved onto the Y1 phonics work and absolutely smashed it!

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 06/07/2026 21:34

SmallandSpanish · 06/07/2026 21:27

The whole system is designed to benefit NT children, who can sit still, read easily, play nice, articulate their needs (which are already mostly accommodated) cope in groups, aren’t bothered by sensory overwhelm and have no learning difficulties. What more do you want? 🙄😂

Well put!

Lengokengo · 06/07/2026 21:32

Many years ago, in the 80’s , I had a high needs child in my class with no extra support. It was not in the UK, and in a system where you repeated a year if you failed. He occupied about 60% of the teachers attention, the other 40% spread over the other 27 kids. The brightest still did well, the weakest still did badly, but it was those just above the weakest that were the most affected. I calculated that an extra 5 kids had to repeat the year , that wouldn’t ordinarily, due to the presence of this high needs boy.

Including him in the class highly impacted the lives of those 5 kids.

SmallandSpanish · 06/07/2026 21:27

The whole system is designed to benefit NT children, who can sit still, read easily, play nice, articulate their needs (which are already mostly accommodated) cope in groups, aren’t bothered by sensory overwhelm and have no learning difficulties. What more do you want? 🙄😂

Mumtobabyhavoc · 06/07/2026 21:24

Thechaseison71 · 06/07/2026 21:22

But what if you don't live near a grammar school or you can't afford private?

It's a bit short dighted really. The bright kids are t usually the ones headed for hood careers and will be paying lots of tax whereas some of the others will never work despite all these " allowances" and time spent on them at school and live on benefits

Anyone, regardless of ability or economic background could end up on benefits fcs. 🤦‍♀️

HolyHannah · 06/07/2026 21:24

I don't really understand what you mean.

You seem to be saying that for your child to "shine", other children need to be prevented from achieving their potential. So they're only shining by comparison and not on their own merit.

My academically able child doesn't need any accommodations and shines all by themselves - regardless of the schools extremely comprehensive inclusion policies.

Jumbaree · 06/07/2026 21:22

RoseOliviaAu · 06/07/2026 21:18

State schools are aiming to make kids get the minimum grades they need to be able to achieve work or university. Those who want their academic kids to have resources to shine need to look towards grammar or private.

This is true but makes me wonder wtf we pay our taxes for.

Thechaseison71 · 06/07/2026 21:22

RoseOliviaAu · 06/07/2026 21:18

State schools are aiming to make kids get the minimum grades they need to be able to achieve work or university. Those who want their academic kids to have resources to shine need to look towards grammar or private.

But what if you don't live near a grammar school or you can't afford private?

It's a bit short dighted really. The bright kids are t usually the ones headed for hood careers and will be paying lots of tax whereas some of the others will never work despite all these " allowances" and time spent on them at school and live on benefits

Jumbaree · 06/07/2026 21:20

C0dename · 06/07/2026 20:57

Who are you excluding?

I’m excluding anyone who is persistently violent and disruptive. Children of any academic level should have the right to learn in peace and safety.

Sylviaplathlives · 06/07/2026 21:18

And no it’s not the kids faults. Or the parents. It’s the funding cuts. Cos if I had a TA occasionally, or printer ink then perhaps I could help some of these children. We are expected to do more and more and more with less. The government can publish whatever it likes, guidance note after note, consultation after consultation but teachers are shouting at the top of their voices that it’s impossible to actually help and teach without more resources!!

RoseOliviaAu · 06/07/2026 21:18

State schools are aiming to make kids get the minimum grades they need to be able to achieve work or university. Those who want their academic kids to have resources to shine need to look towards grammar or private.

TempestTost · 06/07/2026 21:16

cadburyegg · 06/07/2026 16:58

Many inclusion strategies ie good teaching or classroom support helps NT children too. Giving an autistic child a 1:1 TA in school helps to stop disruption affecting the rest of the class for example.

But yes some high achieving children are not sufficiently challenged. Parents can do extra with their child at home, or pay for tutoring or private schooling if they are in a position to do so.

It is not a perfect system but schools have legal duties to make reasonable adjustments for disabled children

This is the issue though.

The school is legally obliged to do the most it can for some.

Other kids can have an education that not only doesn't stretch them, but is actually bad for them, because that's what happens when kids have inappropriate educations.

Parents can pay for enriching education is about the same as saying parents can pay for a child who needs supports. And of course assumes they have the means, are all gifted children well off?

Heck, even if parents want to help them by sending them to private school they now have to pay a luxury tax on it.

Sylviaplathlives · 06/07/2026 21:15

twinkletoesimnot · 06/07/2026 18:56

Spot on!!!

This. With bells on. Most people have ZERO idea quite how bare bones it is in schools. One teacher. 30 plus needs. Zero help. Zero resources. There is no room for the quiet kid who gets on with it and meets standard. The teacher is firefighting. Honestly, go work in a school for a full academic year, I dare you, and then come back to me and let’s talk inclusion.

Mumtobabyhavoc · 06/07/2026 21:10

Oh Christ on a bike. The post reeks, and many supporting posts, of discrimination and looking down on others; complaining that your gifted child isn't getting enough; that children with alternate needs are ruining your child's education ... do you actually hear yourselves?

The issue is lack of funding/staffing. Always has been.

C0dename · 06/07/2026 20:57

Jumbaree · 06/07/2026 20:51

Children without SEND needs have been let down again and again though. All kids have been let down again and again by the government’s policy of ‘inclusion’. Inclusion doesn’t work, ever. It just makes schooling worse for everyone. But it’s lots cheaper than actually educating kids so that’s why we’re doing it.

Who are you excluding?

Jumbaree · 06/07/2026 20:51

Children without SEND needs have been let down again and again though. All kids have been let down again and again by the government’s policy of ‘inclusion’. Inclusion doesn’t work, ever. It just makes schooling worse for everyone. But it’s lots cheaper than actually educating kids so that’s why we’re doing it.

Yogafiend · 06/07/2026 20:51

C0dename · 06/07/2026 20:04

Many bright state kids get into the top unis without tutoring.

Yes many do - but it’s not just the university. Is what they do until they get there. The argument here from what I understood is that kids that are academic aren’t being pushed enough - this is my perspective on that point of you. I didn’t say only children who are tutored get into top universities

Thechaseison71 · 06/07/2026 20:51

SleepingStandingUp · 06/07/2026 20:38

what about disruptive none SEND kids? why is it only kids with SEN you want away from your kids?

I don't want any disruptive kids near mine. Although I'm not sure when I actually mentioned my kids at all so I don't know why you are saying about them. Lack of reading ability perhaps?

The ones without SEN though can be punished for being disruptive.. Even in infant school ( now ks1) a disruptive child was sent out to work in the outer office of the headmistress immediately, before the rest of the class wasted learning time. My brother had to do there for flying paper planes in class

Jumbaree · 06/07/2026 20:49

Yogafiend · 06/07/2026 20:32

I agree with you - and in an ideal world that’s how it should be - all kids having their needs met but the reality is there is no capacity (at least not in the borough I used to live). The TA tend to deal with the situations you mention. So it’s up to us parents to find a solution for our kids.

Since when? Since when did we decide state school kids can just try and fumble along by themselves and not expect to be taught at school?

Enko · 06/07/2026 20:39

My experience is that the high achievers get their rewards. The middle of the road ones noone sees. Nd depends upon the school.

I have had children in all 3 categories

MandemChickenShop · 06/07/2026 20:39

C0dename · 06/07/2026 20:08

Did you not read my post, it’s not exceptions. The vast majority of students at the top unis are from state schools.Private schools are over represented for a variety of reasons but the vast majority of students are state pupils .

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-31715022

School generic

Schools 'fail to stretch most able', says Ofsted

State secondary schools in England are not doing enough to stretch the most able students, Ofsted says.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-31715022

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