To think that NT children miss out in school inclusion policies.

I hate the way SEND, low attainment and poor behaviour are conflated. I have an Autistic academic well behaved child and if you look at masking and fawning behaviours, that isn't unusual. In primary she needed accommodations for misophonia, and struggled with assembly so was allowed to sit out by the end. She went through an attempted school refusal stage and had the odd meltdown but none of this was aimed at anyone except herself. In her secondary they get s3

I think you’re talking about a totally different issues, ie kids who can’t cope at all in mainstream school and/‘or are disruptive

Some kids are disruptive without any SEN!

I think this thread is about kids who learn in a slightly different way/ need a few reasonable adjustments.

Inclusion policies prioritise including people who are typically less likely to be included. Your question makes no sense but essentially you are saying that your child is being disadvantaged because others are taking up their 'space to shine'. Honestly I'd say be grateful that your child's journey at school is as easy as it is.

In my experience the “inclusion” policy is a cost-cutting exercise by government and fails ALL children. It’s great in theory but it is not being adequately resourced (with people!). I can only speak from an Irish, primary school perspective. My school has an unusually high percentage of SEN pupils. Our two special classes are excellent and the 10/12 children in these classes are thriving. But there are many others who don’t qualify for these special classes and are failing in mainstream. We have small class sizes. Last year one out of 18 children in my class took up so much of our time, they were violent and unpredictable and after 3 years of having this child in the class the other 17 children are noticeably suffering. There is another child in the school where the situation is the same in their class. We could not complete the basic maths and English curriculum last year due to the amount of time taken up by handling this child’s “episodes” and then helping the rest of the class to regulate afterwards.

So I agree with OP!

@Brownwithnopezazz my child has an Autism diagnosis, an EHCP and the support of a TA in the classroom. He hasn’t yelled or walloped anyone let alone every day. He isn’t a fox amongst pigeons, that is so hideously upsetting to think that people think like that about him.

In my experience high achieving children are mostly ignored at primary school.
However, my DCs have been challenged, and rewarded, for their achievements and hard work at secondary school.

It is certainly true however that some inclusion policies help no one, including the children they are meant to help.

It’s an insane question. You’re questioning why children who don’t need inclusion policies aren’t the focus of them?? What?

An academic child without any additional needs will be able to access the curriculum as it stands and benefit from it. If the teaching is not stretching that child it is nothing at all to do with the measures put in place to support children who have additional needs. It’s like asking why a gifted athlete isn’t the focus of policies put in place to help physically disabled children access PE.

What spectrum are you talking about?

I think a lot of people don't see how different the standards can be between private and state children by 18, they prefer to believe they're all the same as they all have the same qualifications, and therefore they should be equally represented at the best universities, jobs etc. Which is probably for the best as if the public knew how badly we were letting down our most promising students, aka our country's best and brightest hopes for the future, it would be a scandal. But people really hate the idea of some children getting any advantages others don't, so it's a race to the bottom where everyone has the same comprehensive education, everyone sits the same exams, and everyone falls between two narrow poles of mediocrity.

I'm not sure it's NT vs ND though, an awful lot of ND children would benefit from a more rigorous education, which is why we so many do so much better in private school. NT's may be more capable of ignoring disruption and lessons far below their ability. It's academic children vs non-academic children, but we're still stuck in the Victorian age where we idiotically deem 'non-academic' an insult so force these kids to suffer through an entirely unsuitable education, when they'd be far better served by a schooling more tailored to their own talents, which all too often they don't discover until well after they leave, if ever.

Are you peeved that your child didn't make it to a top university. If they are truly gifted they should be able to do from state school.

Bright motivated NT children will do well in any half way decent school. There is nothing stopping them shining extremely brightly except themselves.

You sound like you are envious of another child? Or bitter about something?

love from a bright motivated ND adult who would have been much more academically successful with a very small amount of extra support at school (wasn’t available back then).

It’s one of those things you’re not supposed to say, but I think that every time I see the poster that illustrates "equity" as opposed to "equality". With "equity" the three children are given different size boxes to stand on, so they can all see over the wall - but of course if the tallest was given the same size box as the shortest, he'd have an even better view…

You do know you can have SEN, need extra support, but be perfectly well behaved don't you?

And kids without SEN can often be pretty toxic to those who are a bit different or slower.

Ultimately, the gifted/brighter children get their time to shine in education at A levels and degree level. However, good schools should provide extension work, and parents can provide enrichment.

If children with SEN aren't catered for there will be even more than at current who can't access education sufficiently and leave school without the education/skills needed to survive independently, thus being an even bigger cost to the state.

Inclusion policies are absolutely toxic to the majority, and an obstacle to excellence. My children’s only negative memories of school are due to pupils who simply shouldn’t have been there. It’s
palpably absurd to favour the few at the expense of the many. When is this drivel going to stop? It’s truly surreal to hear how a child has yelled and walloped his way through the day at school, every day, so he can be included. Why don’t we tell the truth, that these inclusive policies are damaging.
WTF is so wrong with going somewhere tailored to your behaviour, instead of putting a fox in with pigeons, your fingers in your ears, and singing lalala, isn’t it lovely!

What do you think they are missing out on?

My kids are both ND, one has had a formal diagnosis since she was 8-ish. She wasn't given any extra support because she was 'ahead of her peers'.

Support is given to borderline children to push them over the line, either to working at or greater depth. ND doesn't always come into it. And not all children who get extra support etc will be ND.

You'd be surprised how many parents complain that their child isn't invited, but their friends are.

Completely ignoring the fact that their child isn't doing consistently well in any of those subjects but their friends are.

We really shouldn’t have to be able to pay £30k a year to get an adequate education for a talented child.

They have a legal duty to properly stretch gifted and talented children and my child’s state secondary had no interest in this whatsoever. There’s a reason why most PMs went to private school…

"Programmes designed to give help to kids that need it, aren't being used to give help to kids that don't need it. That's unfair".

You really have a bonkers approach to this.