To think that there should be some consequences for Judge Nicholas Rowland

Spells it out here:

@CaesarAugustaThis situation also shows how easy it is to manipulate public opinion and how little the Justice process is understood.

Well, exactly. It confirms that @LizzieSiddal is mistaken in saying he didn't follow the guidelines. The supplementary judgment published recently confirms that the Court of Appeal were seriously concerned about the way the judge was vilified directly as a result of the CPS's inaccurate press release and misleading remarks by the Attorney General, whilst they commended counsel who said the judge had acted with the utmost diligence and care.

@CaesarAugusta He did but the weighting he gave to certain aspects was considered insufficient. A judge can be very careful but opinions differ.

That is not what the Court of Appeal said. They said the judge had "carried out with care a difficult and complex sentencing exercise". You need to read the judgment properly.

Some of the comments on this thread have been depressing to read. Some written by women too I presume.
It answers the question as to why so few women and children report rape though doesn't it?

Quite an important postscript from the Court of Appeal given the title of this thread:

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Approved-Follow-On-Judgment-R-v-X-Y-Z-2026-EWCA-Crim-913.pdf

Edit as I remembered the final pair sentenced for Sycamore were adults.

I think we need to be able to put these kids on the sex offender register at the very least.

@Wipeywipey That’s because it’s not in the sentencing criteria. He didn’t weigh up the evidence and the effect on the victims. The court of appeal is clear about this. Most people are looking at the accused in the same way as adults. It’s useful to read the whole Court of Appeal judgement to see what the court was dealing with in terms of the boys. It doesn’t make great reading. They didn’t go to school. They had great difficulty with learning. They almost certainly lacked parental guidance and sex and consent education. We need to address far more than sentencing!!

Yes. Rape convictions are so notoriously rare and sentences so disproportionately low that its hardly surprising women and girls feel they are treated with utter contempt by the legal system.

I also think he didn't factor in the effect a non-custodial sentence would have on other boys who might want to do similar for tik-tok fame. It is as if he thought "oh well it has happened now so two wrongs don't make a right, let's let them have another chance at least" obviously not considering that the girls have to live with the memories for life, but also that this looks like condoning the behaviour for online hits because once it is done it's done. The men responsible for Sycamore Gap got worse sentencing!

I agree

He could have and should have given a custodial sentence but he chose not to

we know he didn’t have to it’s that he choose not to is the issue and questions absolutely should be raised about his understanding of the impact on victims

Criticising women for discussing law that affects all of us is pretty condescending.

Women are really tired of rapists being let off.

It doesn't take legal qualifications to understand this.

In this circumstance Mr Bumble is right “the law is an ass, an idiot”.

It’s a very useful barometer of the willingness of people with little or no knowledge of a subject to opine as if they were experts. I have more knowledge than most about two different issues/subjects , as for the rest I’m as dim as everyone else. However when either area comes up I’m genuinely amazed at some of the “opinions” stated as facts.

MN is an internet chat board. It's for discussion.

I think what we and @OtterlyAstounding are being told is that having to be told not to rape, is so much worse and upsetting and harmful than actually being raped?

I really don’t know. I guess it has to start early, with the attitudes boys absorb in their families, but that just isn’t going to happen in some families.

Thanks for this explanation. What can be done to protect women and girls better? I'm asking because it seems like dealing with the perpetrators is a dead end.

I think the point is that unless you are going to keep them in prison for the rest of their lives, they will be freed at some point and be living amongst us. I’m not saying I agreed with the judge (I didn’t), but it’s not only about punishment and the deterrence of others; the judge has to consider whether spending years in Young Offenders institutions or in prison is likely to make a young person more or less likely to be set on a path of crime and anti-social behaviour for the rest of their life. If the answer is "more likely, because of who they’ve been mixing with every day for years", we have to accept that that has long-term implications for society.

The thing is @MeetMeOnTheCorneryou could probably say that about most offenders that are caught and punished. It doesn't really add or change anything except to make some people feel better that they are more humane because they have compassion for the offender. So where do we go from here? Understanding and compassion, ok fine. And then what? It sounds like there isn't really any rehabilitation? If you could show us how lots of men have been rehabilitated I'd love to see that.

Just to add: all 3 boys were home educated. There’s no doubt as to the offences but these boys have some significant issues which had not been adequately addressed. The court of appeal gives details of their backgrounds. It tends to be a number of failures when dc turn out like this.

On this you're saying you don't believe her, I'm saying I do, that clause was added for your benefit, not mine, if she's telling the truth that 100% supports my case. If you want to concede she's telling the truth on count 1 then I don't need that caveat.

"if the victim is to be believed" alright Danny.