Intrusive thoughts DD

I should probably have said that my DD is AuDHD and was under both a psychiatrist and a psychologist when EMDR was recommended for her intrusive thoughts.

Psychiatrists - are medical doctors, they've been to med school and then specialised in the brain. They are the only ones who can prescribe medication and give a diagnosis. Most expensive privately.

Psychologists have studied the brain but focus on the therapeutic side. They usually specialise in specific conditions eg OCD, anxiety, eating disorders. IME, those that work with under 18s have spent some time working in CAMHS before switching to private practice. Usually offer CBT and/or DBT.

Psychotherapists - have studied types of therapy but not psychology. Will offer things like EMDR, tapping, 'holistic therapy'. These are the cheapest option but IME are fine for anxiety but nothing more serious. Certainly not equipped to help with OCD.

I may not have that 100% correct as it's based on my understanding and questioning of professionals over the last 3 years. My daughter is AuDHD - autistic and inattentive ADHD, late diagnosed for both. My limited knowledge of OCD was the cleaning rituals and light switches etc but its so much more than that.

Please do make sure you have a safety plan. A lock box for medications (especially paracetamol).

Programme numbers into your phone - 111 option 2 is mental health. Also young minds (and they have a parent line). I'll dig out our CAMHS info and find others for you tomorrow.

Can you get signed off work by your GP? I had 3 months initially, and then periods of emergency leave and flexible working whenever things took a turn for the worse. I have an incredibly understanding employer - i simply could not have stayed working otherwise and im a single mum so that wasn't a palatable option.

To add, the psych noted that he had tics too, and recommended ASD assessment. This was a remote psychiatric assessment sorted through the Priory in our case, we just let the choosing of the specialist to them and she was great.

My DS also developed OCD when he was around 12 or 13, also centring on him being racist, and how can he be sure that he isn’t etc. I second contacting the charity OCD-UK, they’ll be able to point you in the right direction. I was also told the wait for an NHS assessment would be years so wait private and in the meantime, bought a bunch of books to understand better how to react and help. I recommend Brain Lock as well - was recommended by OCD-UK. It had a list of common intrusive thoughts at the end. It hugely reassured DS to see his fear listed as common - he had assumed he was the only person with « evil » thoughts … I had to take two weeks off work when i became aware and looked into the condition . It was also the absolute worst worse time in my life, I could literally barely put one foot in front of the other. In our case he didn’t end up needing CBT, I guess we were lucky that it went away quite quickly in the end. I’d say reading up and understanding the thought process was key to helping him. Best of luck.

Oh yes!

massively ! So the treatment route is different but also super quick

only problem adhd assessment is more expensive around 800-1000 but a good consultant gives treatment immediately (they did with us )

so all this torture you’re both going through can have an end very quickly !

my consultant has been amazing ! DMd you details x

Yes it does hugely. Have a look into rejection sensitive dysphoria which is linked to ADHD. But also just general overthinking can lead to anxiety and OCD type symptoms.

My son has AuDHD but mainly inattentive. He's very well behaved at school but all that masking holds in all the emotion and stress. He's constantly worrying about things he's said or done. Then takes huge leaps from I've done x (e.g. today he accidently stood on a fly) equal y (I'm a horrendous person and might as well die). It's really distressing to see but the med have resolved the vast majority of it. Just struggling now agai as he's grown a lot and clearly needs dose adjusted.

This is why it's so.impprtant to get a propwr diagnosis after full psychiatric assessments. If you go down the wrong line meds can make things worse not better.

Take her to a&e. Don’t leave until they get her in front of a psychologist. Say she’s going to harm herself.

My son's private Psychiatrist said that stimulants would make the tics worse. He's diagnosed mild Tourette's as well as AuDHD but mainly suppresses them outside his home so not very obvious to others.

Since starting atomexitine hes almost entirely stopped tics and his intrusive thoughts are hugely reduced. Anxiety massively better too. No side effects at all. Whereas friends I know who have tried sertraline have all found it changes personality/mood too.

He's currently on 40mg once a day but he's low BMI. This is another thing that jas thankfully improved gradually as anxiety has fallen. He was very underweight, now low end of normal.

That’s it!! Us too!

so few people on MN are on Atomoxetine it’s so amazing to find someone on same boat !

first week we started it, just 10mg, OCD disappeared (he’s on 60mg now) and suddenly all calm! saved our life !

yes true we increased too due to growth but pulsing morning and evening ❤️

From the beginning I was reading this wondering if she has OCD. I was diagnosed a few years ago at 33! It’s an awful thing to live with. 😌 I have good times where I feel I’m relatively “normal” with low anxiety, low intrusive thoughts etc and then some dips where it’s a lot worse. 11/12 is a hard age anyway. Sending love I’m sure it’s not easy for you ❤️

Hello, I am so sorry to hear how unwell your daughter is. I have OCD and your daughter’s intrusive thoughts do sound very like they might be OCD. My mum has always been my rock - not because she knew what to do or the ins and outs of OCD - but because she showed she loved me unconditionally. Normal things like hugs, making sure I ate, not judging me etc I just wanted to share this as I know my mum felt so helpless but honestly her just being there as my mum made the absolute world of difference. OCD is horrible but I also want to say that with medication and CBT I am now pretty much symptom free. Your daughter can get better. I hope this gives you some hope and your daughter. I would agree with others to reach out to OCD UK and it’s really good you have managed to speak to CAMHS. I wish you and your daughter all the very very best.

That's great. Atomexitine (non stimulant adhd meds) have been our lifesaver for the last few years. Although now age 12 with puberty hormones going wild things have got a bit more problematic the last few months. I'm hoping an increased dose will help as he's shot up in height/weight recently too. Just waiting for next review!

Spot on! Exactly our case and thankfully adhd drugs rather than ADs resolved it..

As an aside ADHD linked RSD could well be a factor for a lot of what you describe. The overthinking with ADHD can also make what is a normal thought like 'my mum is annoying' into something you overthink and worry about. So keep and open mind as OCD type symptoms can come from a wide range of causes.

@LavateraRose there is a cheaper private route

my consultant charges less and you can have medication same day just after one consultation if situation is bad (sent you details yesterday )

also CAMHS can provide medication immediately if urgent (friends kid was offered both therapy sessions and meds within a week- went through SH)

consider also what @Treebaubles said there might be adhd or ASD masking…. For us it was adhd and a simple adhd medication resolved ocd as well x

Oh OP, I have been exactly where you are. My daughter basically crumbled at the end of Y6 (after years of masking ASD - they absolutely don’t necessarily go hand in hand but there is a strong overlap).

My DD also had the same urges to tell me I was fat, ugly etc. But that distressed her so much. She also had intrusive thoughts about all her family sexually abusing her whilst she slept (even me). Or about thinking she had to go on to the train track. Or animals being abused. Or being secretly recorded. Or checking her phone obsessively thinking she’d sent horrible messages to friends or family. Or that she wasn’t dressed properly. Or that people had seen her naked. It destroyed both her and me. One of the toughest periods in my life for sure (and we’ve dealt with a lot - grief, illness etc).

The NHS were completely useless, so we went private and she’s been on medication (sertraline) for a few years now. It’s been life changing and I’m not exaggerating when I say it’s saved us a family.

@LavateraRoseEMDR therapy worked really well for my DD ( she was 14 ) and her intrusive thoughts. It took just 6 sessions.

I have an AuDHD diagnosed child age 12 who has intrusive thoughts and actions that have slowly changed over time. They don't have OCD but they do have Tourettic OCD which is quite differrnt in terms of symptoms and treatments. ADHD meds are what have helped massively not anti anxiety meds. But had to be very careful with which one was used as many make tourettic OCD worse.

We have had CAMHS involvement and private involvement. What i would warn you is that most private assessment companies have tunnel vision. They want you to sign up to for a specific package of e.g. autism assessment or OCD assessment etc. You can get individual assessments done for maybe £500 but it won't help if you have initially chosen the wrong route. Other Psychiatrists will charge by the hour for general appointments but not necessarily do full extensive assessments as these are expensive to implement.

What you really need to find is a Psychiatrist who will consider and screen for a wide range of possible outcomes. But from expeirnce to do that properly is at least £2-4k. So a lot of Psychiatrists will basically just try sertraline and see what happens as it's a much cheaper option. Sometimes it works sometimes it makes things much worse.

It's a horrible situation to be in but getting proper full Psychiatrist assessment is really the best way forward.

So sorry you are all going through this. Obviously a professional diagnosis is needed to help your daughter and all your family, but as PPs have suggested, these symptoms could be OCD. This is a cruel, tormenting mental health condition which goes way beyond day to day anxiety, and is certainly not an attention seeking choice. It takes a great toll on the quality of life for sufferers and those close to them, but it can be tackled.

Firstly, if it is OCD, it is not your fault. It is a neurological condition - there are plenty of trustworthy sites online which explain the biological basis for the condition. It doesn't matter how good a parent you are. In fact research shows that intrusive thoughts cause such pain, because they target the values dearest to us. So a new mother passionately committed to her child's safety may have intrusive thoughts about hurting their baby, or a daughter who knows her mum loves her and adores her mum, will say the opposite, precisely because this is the worst thought that can come into her head. It is a truly cruel condition. Also the fear of being a bad person is 100% characteristic of OCD, as is the fear of having done/said something bad, when you 100% haven't.

It is good that your daughter has felt able to tell you what her thoughts are about. Many are too ashamed of their thoughts to ask for help, so her ability to talk to you is a testament to your relationship. Although it is exhausting.

Professional help can be very effective. Once you have a diagnosis, make sure you find a practitioner who has the skills and experience to work with the specific condition. Anyone can set up as a counsellor, and you need someone who knows what they are doing. Working with a professional helps relieve the massive pressure you are under as well.

In the meantime, I really recommend 'Overcoming Unwanted Intrusive Thoughts: A CBT-based Guide to Getting Over Frightening, Obsessive or Disturbing Thoughts' by Sally M Wilson and others. It explains what is going on for your daughter, why her thoughts don't mean what she thinks they mean, why she is absolutely not a bad person, and how to work to improve things. (As an aside, I'd recommend you read the book and talk to her about it, as some of the intrusive thoughts discussed would be, as you can imagine, graphic and very troubling to a 11/12 year old.)

It may or may not be OCD, this is the condition I unfortunately know about. But whatever the diagnosis, I wish you all the best.

Does she have any diagnosis Op? I know ASD is often poo poohed, and people think it’s over used but the reality is children who are ND are far more likely to suffer with poor mental health. Women/girls with ND are more likely to have PMDD. The world is harder for them to navigate.