AIBU to think university executives should not be paid so much that the uni can't afford lecturers

The issue really got worse when the cap on student numbers was lifted and many universities over extended. Why does a university like Huddersfield even consider running an English degree? What for? Plenty of other universities have this degree and have done for decades.

With over expansion came costs. Now student numbers are reducing, from home and abroad, there are financial issues. Cutting a few top brass salaries won’t help. Reducing expenditure and courses will help temporarily but the whole sector needs recalibration.

37% of school leavers go to university because the offerings below degree level are not appealing. They used to be and they were employment based courses. The former polys and colleges of HE ran work related courses and we need to revert to this.

One of my DDs did a MFL degree and the other a fashion degree. One is now a high earner and both are self employed. Im certain DC cannot all do stem degrees but we don’t need 100 universities offering English degrees. We need high quality and fewer bums on seats courses.

I teach in a sixth form college, and my DP used to teach undergraduates in Canada. When he first came here he would tell me I should be teaching at university, I would earn more, it'd be a better job - only after a few years does he understand that on the top of the pay scale I get paid more than a uni lecturer, I get more holidays and better terms and conditions! Plus I don't need a PhD. He was thinking about his well-funded, swish university in Canada which had loads of money and amazing facilities...

This. I don’t think many/any of them are in danger of getting a job as a CEO in industry 🤷‍♀️

Many of the VC’s have no prior business experience at all, some were academics themselves. A lot of them have also never been in the city before in their lives so don’t understand the landscape whatsoever. They walk in with grandiose ideas that inevitably fail because they have no grasp of the local student body.

Oh agreed. I was using Hud as an example as I worked closely with some top class academics there and seeing them lose their jobs was gut wrenching. You’re right, this issue is systemic. I feel lucky to work in a cushioned uni (for now).

Also agree with PP regarding top class humanities courses. Again, will go back to Huddersfield but their linguistics and English departments were world leading. Now linguistics doesn’t exist and English has 2 lecturers- a 19th century expert and postmodernist. They ditched their only remaining Shakespeare professor. It’s gut wrenching to witness but there you go.

Stefan Collini’s work on this is brilliant, his recent LBR piece was phenomenal.

Universities are large scale business. They need to be run by people with appropriate skill sets and experience.

As someone in the private sector it actually blows my minds that people are willing to
do that sort of work for £300k.

Posters are commenting on how we can expect a midwife or paramedic to lecture when they could earn more in industry, but how much do you think a VC could earn as CEO of a private company?

cutting exec salaries is not the way forward, investing in education and a revision of the idea that everyone can go is the way forward

Anyone who thinks academics get long holidays needs to see the MSc teaching schedule. Students arrive in September and teaching runs to April, then intensive project supervision to August and then project marking in August before the next batch show up in September. It is relentless.

Try being a healthcare lecturer. Students are in from mid Sept to end of July. With teaching up to the end of July. Then all through August there are students making missed placement hours up.

Days of automatic promotion are long gone. I know people with 5plus years experience with a Masters, pg cert, module lead, other school responsibilities and still can’t get SL. I know a program lead who isn’t an SL!

it’s not 54 days holiday either I don’t think. I certainly don’t get that many.

I agree OP that VCs are paid too much. I know it's a big responsibility and they deserve to be rewarded fairly, but the absolute chasm between a senior lecturer salary and the VC is totally unjustified.

Sorry - I didn't mean to criticise Philosophy lecturers - it was a lazy dig. Its just the point that universities are businesses and big complex ones at that. Its often assumed that academics are the lynch pins of universities because they do the teaching and research and professional service staff roles are constantly side lined as just the admin. But usually they are the ones making everything work. This post is seeming to suggest that exec roles should be paid less so academics can keep their jobs even if its not financially viable. My original point is that exec postholders are often academics but more so let's not assume that poor salaries for management and admin roles in the sector should be expected.

Education is a huge export for the UK and it's crumbling. Chinese universities are catching up and the government have allowed the UK sector to be decimated. We will regret it

Also getting rid of degrees based on whims and trends is a huge mistake. When the wind changes and people want world class humanities departments they won't be coming to the UK because they are all gone.

Anyone who thinks academics get long holidays needs to see the MSc teaching schedule. Students arrive in September and teaching runs to April, then intensive project supervision to August and then project marking in August before the next batch show up in September. It is relentless.

VC salaries are high but cutting them would only buy you one extra lecturer. It is not an easy fix. Educating students well costs money and the tuition fees dont cover it.

there is a demographic dip coming (less 5 year olds in the uk now) so over the coming years, this is going to get much worse with less 18 year olds going to uni and less fees.

Huddersfiled is not alone. Some top tier unis rely on temp staff. DS was taught by in his opinion, the cleverest man he'd ever met, at Oxford. This man had three part time jobs at three different unis and couldn't progress because he couldn't afford to take time off to finish his PhD.

And of course part-timers don't get office hours. But are still expected to reply to student emails, departmental emails, attend meetings, answer student questions after class. It all adds up to hours and hours of unpaid work.

How depressing to think that business management degrees can be done online. No human interaction. No face to face experience. Where are they supposed to learn all the soft skills?

I'm guessing you're not an academic if you think reducing a couple of senior salaries will save 150 jobs! The university sector in the UK is in a mess. That mess is not caused by senior leaders earning the money that they deserve and is appropriate for their level of expertise.

This is so wrong it’s laughable.

It isn’t automatic. It happens after extensive positive teaching feedback, solid research output and other contributions such as leading modules. We don’t get 54 days AL. If by AL you mean Christmas and Easter breaks, we spend some of that marking, at conferences or researching.

...automatic promotion to senior lecturer so potential earnings of £55k+, 54 days paid holiday a year, 24% employer contribution to salary...

Students largely don’t want to learn online, it wasn’t popular during the pandemic and I’d imagine still wouldn’t be. They go to uni often for the social aspect and experience, you don’t get that online. If they wanted that they’d just do open uni.

Some specialisms in FE are even worse off. They pay worse than both schools and industry. Try hiring a welder into an FE college when they earn double in industry.

Agree. I know some who go into lecturing later in life after a career in those very professions which makes sense. You don’t need a PhD if you have extensive professional experience in those areas. But you’re right, lecturing isn’t an appealing profession if you’re after money.

Unpopular opinion, but a lot of "Business" type degrees from lower tier universities could be delivered via an online platform with just as good (or bad) outcomes for the student. This could be done for a couple of thousand per year with the student living at home. Thus saving a lot of money.

I expect this could be expanded to a lot of other courses (not STEM), but I am just highlighting the low hanging fruit.

Lecturers pay is also awful and really not kept up with other sectors. 38k starting salary going up to 43k. This is for a job which in the advert for the person spec says a PhD is required!

Can you imagine how hard it is to find lecturers for courses like architecture, paramedic studies, nursing, midwifery, etc when all those professions earn more than that!

They teach critical thinking and that’s dangerous.

Exeter are getting a lot of attention and whilst I agree with it, this sort of thing has been going on for years. Two years ago Huddersfield Uni axed most of their humanities lecturers, their English course now only has 2 lecturers for example. Made it to local news but not national. People only seem to care because it’s a Russell.

I’m an academic within humanities so I agree with you but it’s happening nationally, especially within A&H. VC’s are paid astronomical amounts and there’s way too many managers. Courses are being sliced and diced to nothing with lower student numbers blamed. Academics are forced to reinterview for their roles most years in some uni’s. At Huddersfield they ditched the professors and hired a lot of temp staff.

It’s a bleak situation. Some uni’s have fared better than others, particularly ones in large cities like Manchester.