To think an annual property tax is incredibly unfair?

Does anyone know the rationale for excluding renters from the LVT? It may be administrative or legal, i.e. owners can be traced via Land Registry, but tenants can be transient. However I think there is an obligation on landlords to inform the council when a person either leaves or takes up a new tenancy (not sure which) for the council tax, but since an apartment/flat/house renter does not own the underlying land, that may be the reason they are not liable for LVT.

I wish they would tell us why renters are excluded. I want to know the reason!

That single pensioner will have paid more in CT per person than the 4 working adults living the same house who will one stage need care themselves at a huge cost whilst paying in far less than a single person.

Absolutely, but I don't think the landlord should be paying it, it should be the tenant, and the inability to apply for discounts is one of many reasons why.

There are not enough super wealthy for this to work. Believe it or not. The lvt is a replacement for Council Tax and Stamp Duty. Sorry if you already know this.

I dont believe council tax will be cheaper. I suspect it will be on top of council tax

just tax the super rich even 1/2 a % could
make a huge difference.

How can a renter apply for a discount due to disability, low income etc, if it is their landlord footing the cost?

The renters will end up paying it through increased rents, and there will be even less landlords making it even harder to rent somewhere.

Renters absolutely should pay, I presume they will be able to apply for discounts if an OAP, single adult, severe disability requiring additional space to meet need, like they can with council tax

Roughly based on someone on an ordinary salary who bought a house in Brixton before gentrification, which I'm taking to be pre The Fridge, and what that house might be worth today. Basically someone whose salary is nowhere near their house's paper value.

The social care bill is what is hitting most local councils the hardest. A single pensioner might generate huge adult social care costs, while four working adults might have very little impact on the councils cost. They are certainly not getting 4 bin collections and stuff.

I’d pay it cause I work in tax policy and it is SO MUCH so much fairer for other taxpayers with more volatile DC pensions, who have to fund them themselves, while also underwriting my State Pension and my stable, gold-plated DB workplace pension.

Fixed it for you.

That’s a great question. No one knows.

Personally I am bored with repeating, half a dozen times on this thread, how important I believe it to be that any LVT be phased in gradually and with due care for the vulnerable. TBF, Labour is the party most likely to take that care. But we can only wait and see.

Love this. ❤

It’s not a big thing, just a funny little giveaway. Everyone who doesn’t work professionally with tax calls it ‘stamp duty’, but everyone who does calls it ‘SDLT’ or ‘stamp duty land tax’.

Stamp duty on property was largely abolished in 2003, and replaced by the distinct SDLT. Stamp duty, the old tax, is still technically payable in very unusual circumstances (e. g. if you exchanged contracts in 2002 and complete now), so no tax professional ever confuses the two by calling SDLT by the colloquial ‘stamp duty’ as everyone else does.

Because 2 people in a band E house uses less council utility (bins and stuff) than a a band B house with 4 people.

This!
based on our purchase price we’d pay around the same as our current council tax. But based on the most recent sale on the street we’d pay over £6000
And based on the actual state of our house 😬 it’d be somewhere nearer 4500 but they’d need to look inside to assess this.

haven’t rtft but also…

how will local councils survive? because the equivalent property (3 bed terrace) where I grew up would be liable for a bill of around £800 at today’s prices… so my local council will get loads more income than the poorer area of my school days … how will that help levelling up? And is that huge disparity for the homeowner really fair?

genuinely concerned about how we will get by if our bills increase any more.

What is it called? I don't work in tax policy and am genuinely interested!

I really hope it goes through. We pay a fortune in council tax as we are just on the cusp of a bracket and fall in to the higher one. I've questioned it but didn't get anywhere.
I've already worked out we'd save a £110 every month if we moved to annual property tax.

You’re pro the US system is that right?

Doesn’t it mean some areas flourish due to higher property taxes

In the U.S., schools are highly dependent on local property taxes . Wealthier neighbourhoods with high-value properties can generate massive school budgets, while lower-income areas often struggle with underfunded schools despite having higher tax rates.

Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. Someone living in a £5 million home can pay more than someone in a three-bedroom semi in Blackpool, while it still being reasonable to question whether an annual tax based on the paper value of the home someone lives in is the right way to do it.

It's all very well talking about £5 million homes. My brother lives on his own in a terraced home worth around £450,000 - SE, but not London. Under this proposal, he would pay more. The house needed a full refurbishment when he bought it, and he's only just finished renovating it. It's supposed to be his final home. Financially, he's only about breaking even. millions of people like my brother up and down the country. They aren't sitting on vast fortunes; they're simply living in the homes they've worked hard to buy and improve.

So I call bullshit on the £5 million example. There are significantly more £450,000 homes than £5 million ones. If we're debating the impact of a tax, we should be talking about the people who are actually most likely to be affected, not outliers.

Your ISA allowance is nowhere near what a leveraged house purchase is worth...

Not everyone pays CT (or the full rate anyway).
How will this proposal affect people that are currently receiving Council Tax Support? Some of which are homeowners, so not renting.

Well of course those who rent privately would probably find LVT absorbed into their rent. It is a landlord expense.

Why not? They pay CT.

It doesn’t seem to be difficult as many countries with LVT manage to assess properties every couple of years.