To think an annual property tax is incredibly unfair?

You could almost call it a Ponzi scheme dressed up as fairness.

You do realise there is already a department of valuers? It is called the Valuation Office and is part of HMRC.

It would be hugely unfair and sends the wrong message that aspiration should be punished.

Absolutely and there are some very wealthy people living in the North because the housing is cheaper and they won’t have paid so much in mortgage costs

But people who buy houses like that don't pay tax like workers do....

Were you originally working outside of IR35?

By your argument you pay for the privilege...

But a £500k mansion on in the NE really should pay lower council tax charge than a 350k flat in London?

Nothing contradictory about that at all.

I think people living in a large house with a smaller value because it’s in a cheaper location, end up paying more council tax than those living in a house the same size in an expensive area. This is because both councils need to raise enough money to pay for all the services they are obliged to provide. In an expensive area there will be more houses in a higher council tax band and so they can set a lower council tax for that band and raise more money than councils in a cheap area where few houses are in higher to council tax bands. It then follows that those living in the expensive area should pay a property tax. It’s a way of levelling up with those in less affluent areas. Whatever changes are made somebody will lose out unfortunately.

YABU it's not unfair.

If you're in a big or expensive property then you pay for the privilege of that.

I do think he needs to take account of regional values though - what's a mansion in the NE might only be worth £500k, a small flat in London might be upwards of £350k, but then wages in the two areas are different too...

My property tax won't change (current band E) which I think is fair. Properties near me have not climbed the same way surrounding areas have.

At the mo due to IR35, my stoppages are c60% and I'm OK paying it, but honestly too many people relying on benefits when they could work gets my goat. We should get those who can working, the country would be back on its feet in no time...

That is pretty much what we pay in council tax where I am, for a small 4 bed semi. So fair enough from my point of view.

I think it’s incredibly unfair. I also think the existing system is unfair.

A poll tax for services used make more sense. However statistically people from lower income families often have more children or inter-generational living, so this didn’t go down well with the voters.

Say family of 3, of which one is a child, live in a 3 bed detached, why should they pay more than a family of 6 up north in a 3 bed detached? It’s the tax of envy. Zero logic to it.

I think however the current tax system is very outdated meaning the North are often disadvantaged.

If buyers spread the cost over 30 and 40year mortgages, house prices can continue to rise, especially in some sections of the market with lower PPT. If property taxes are linked to annual property revaluation, more homeowners could find themselves paying higher PPT even though there has been no increase in their income.

I don’t see how it’s any more unfair than any of the other taxes we have. We don’t pay tax based on what we use. I use significantly less health services than my elderly parents and I pay more tax than they do or ever did. Lots of people outside London pay significantly higher council tax than those in London for comparably worse services (transport, public services like libraries etc). You’ve got high earners paying huge amounts of income tax and not getting funded childcare hours that someone on £17k a year (who pays far less income tax can claim). Couples earning £59k a year each getting full child benefit whilst a family with one person earning not much over that getting a reduced amount or nothing at all (and falling into a higher tax bracket to boot). Taxes aren’t just decided on what’s ‘fair’ it’s a far bigger picture than that.
The reality is that the current system of stamp duty (which this would replace) is causing damage to the housing situation in this country because you need to find an enormous sum of money upfront which many can’t afford. Most economists agree that it is not a good system and it needs reforming. We’ve got older generations sat in huge houses with several spare rooms who won’t move because they don’t want to pay stamp duty on a smaller house and entire younger generations who may never be able to buy a home because there aren’t enough for sale and they likely couldn’t afford the stamp duty anyway. We also have a decline in rental properties so it’s really tough for younger people. I can see why you think it’s unfair because you will be worse off but there are also many who won’t be. The proposed changes might have a positive effect on the overall economy which in turn benefits everyone.

Apart from envy, I just can’t understand your logic. Your local council tax payments fund your local services. If there are not as many costs in an area, or that council is better run, why should a more expensive house pay more just because your council has higher costs/is less efficient etc? The more expensive house will in all likelihood have been purchased through taxed income - often significantly north of a 40% average rate. Plus paid stamp duty. If you earned the same money and chose (as you could afford to as your house cost less) to spurge on cars/jewellery/holidays should we apply retroactive taxes on those assets/memories?

People may want to wait for the details before worrying prematurely. No proposal exists currently.

Someone may have already pointed this out, but how would a new system be there to those who have already paid stamp duty on their homes? Do we then pay a second tax while new buyers swerve stamp duty?

Im so sick of not being able to budget my life and plan for the future based on forever changing and failing governments. Our house, which i considered a good investment, is becoming a financial burden. We can afford it but our reserves are depleted. We work ridiculously hard for a good lifestyle but most of our money disappears to HMRC.

You may save on stamp duty when you move, but you would replace it with an annual property tax that could rise as your home's value increases. Many people couldn't afford to buy their own home if it were on the market today, not just downsizers. Yet people will be expected to pay an annual tax based on on a value that acts as if they are.

Even after you've downsized, there is no guarantee your housing costs will stay affordable. And it's not just downsizers either. If your area is regenerated, a new station opens or the local school becomes outstanding, house prices are likely to rise, and so will PPT, but your salary probably won't.

So what if it's "only" one in four affected today? Do people really think it will stay like that? The numbers don't add up. So what will it be in five or ten years' time, as more areas benefit from new homes, regeneration and the infrastructure built to support them? I'd be very surprised if it remained one in four for long.

People may want to look at what is planned for their area before they breathe a sigh of relief.

The fact you earn enough to qualify for that mortgage shows that you can afford that property.
The disparity between council tax payments across the country is huge.
I object to paying the same council tax for my modest family home in Newcastle than people in multimillion pound properties in London regardless of their size.
I also object to paying more than those in homes in my local area that have increased in value significantly since the bands were created so their houses are worth double ours (so we could never afford to live there) but they pay less council tax than us because our house was built in 2000 and has not increased in value by anywhere near as much as there’s. This seams like a fairer approach to property tax.

julieh1968

75% of your council tax pays for adult social care and children’s service.

most of the cost is to private companies for care

No discount

This system would replace the council tax system and stamp duty system. It would not be in addition to council tax.

How do reckon you’ll be paying £6k

Would there still be a single person discount ?
Im down in south and currently with the discount I pay £1600 / year , if this 0.48% goes ahead that would take me to a bit above £2200

House prices definitely have increased in the last decade!

I bought my house in 2012 , and even taking into account the money I have spent on extending it and renovating the price of my house has doubled!

Bought for £190k - in need of modernisation, rewiring and didn’t have plumbing for a washing machine.

Spent £190k on renovations

Worth approximately £600k (according to our bank when valued when we remortgaged)

Because council tax is based on the value of the house when sold, my neighbours on the other half of my semi are Band C for council tax, out house has a small extension on the kitchen which means we are Band D - we have both substantially extended our houses by the same amount - so they are evenly sized now… but they pay less council tax than us!

Incidentally a new build two bedroom apartment on my road is Band E, yet both of our semi’s are four bedroom houses with three bathrooms and reception rooms after extensions.

The council tax system is inherently unfair and if we downsized on our road we would pay more council tax!

The system needs reform!

It wouldn't necessarily work that way. In the U.S., property taxes are assessed, collected, and spent locally only.

Surely levelling up would mean everything gets super expensive up north as well as down south… from what I see wages aren’t that different north and house prices are lower. My friends and family north can have much more disposable income than south, been struggling for years now.

some agree op, same tax (which I completely disagree with in principle) to all