To think an annual property tax is incredibly unfair?

Seems like majoirty of people will be winners ergo paying less not enough paying more to make up the difference so how does that balance the books if council tax is scrapped. There will be less money then what they get now and if services are already crap well what will happen when there is even less money....

If so id be saving £80 a month

So this is instead of council tax ? Not heard of this

You reform council tax by taking adult social care out of it and funding thst through general taxation like pensions are. Everyone pays in their share and grts help they need when they need it. That way a town where there is high percentage of elderly people is having the majority of its funding spent on care.

Then council only need money for other common services we need like bins, police, fire, education.

Then you make council tax per adult per household. So if there are 5 adults they all pay the same amount. So the poll tax essentially.

Start with that. We all know adult social care is a ticking time bomb noone is addressing it.

Property prices have changed hugely, property wealth is also not liquid capital so not moving round benefiting the economy.

I wish there was a better way than taxation to try and redustribute wealth but nobody has come up with one. Every tax and spend decision has winners and losers, sorry OP just because you may be a loser in this instance doesn't necessarily make it unfair. If you think it's unfair write to your MP don't bitch and act all entitled about it on social media.

But then you’re still taxing transactions. So people won’t move. I live in a street of big houses, most of which are occupied by 1 or 2 elderly people because young people cannot afford to buy here. They’ve all been here 15+ years apart from one set of retirees who bought 6 years ago (who retires to a 5 bed house???). The government got stamp duty from us as we are young-ish and needed the space so moved. The government got no property tax other than council tax from the rest of the street despite them being wealthy (that was what defined benefits pensions did) and living in huge houses. You don’t think it would have been fair to up the annual property tax for everyone and not just one couple who did something so terrible - moved house?

Then treat home ownership like other assets and tax it when the home is sold, not every year simply because someone continues to live in it.

Loving in the north is highly recommended. I’ve had the time of my life in North Yorkshire.

Taxes are not ‘supposed to be based on income’. Taxes are based on lots of things. Income, wealth, assets, what you buy, how environmentally friendly you are etc etc. we tax too much from income and not enough from assets and other wealth. The balance of tax take needs to start moving away from income.

Even before he is in no.10 he trying to divide the country. I think it is totally unfair , & l love in the north.

Our council tax is substantially more than 0.48% of the alleged value of the property. All the highest areas of council tax are outside London, many of them some of the most deprived areas of the country. All but one of the lowest areas are in London and they’re all extremely wealthy.

https://moneyweek.com/personal-finance/council-tax-burden-highest-lowest-uk

I think it’s a great idea, I’m in the SE (just) and my council tax is much higher than someone living in equivalent home in London and probably higher than lots of much, much more expensive houses. Plus stamp duty is just awful, to find that money on top of all the other moving expenses, it’s a huge disincentive to move, which can’t be good for the economy or housing market.

How it’s phased in will be key as there’s lots of older people who are in housing worth many, many times more than they paid. I imagine that as they have so much political weight they’ll be looked after.

My MIL who lives on basic state pension pays same as her neighbours who have 4 working adults in their house, including 1 Dr and 1 pharmacist. How is that fair? Taxes are supossed to be based on income. And yes, people would say she can move, but it's a small 3 bed, and 2 bed bungalows are same price.

It should be done away with altogether, and a bit more put on income tax and ringfenced for services local to the person paying

Of course income tax doesn’t prevent me earning. It’s a fair tax. We all pay it. Stamp duty is only paid by people who move. So people don’t move.

If I moved house within 2 years of paying £43,350 in stamp duty it would work out as £1,800 a month in stamp duty I’d have paid. If I stay 4 years it would be £900. 8 years at £450 a month is still more than I pay in council tax. I’d have to live there 11 years for my stamp duty bill to be less than my council tax bill. So I won’t move. Ever. And that’s really bad for the economy. Neither my husband nor I will look for other work outwith the area. We’re unlikely to ever downsize, even when the kids have left home. Why would we? We might want to move to a more suitable property later on in life but it really doesn’t make financial sense, especially when so few homes are available.

So we’ll sit in our big expensive home for years longer than we would otherwise choose to. That’s the damage of stamp duty. Tax any transaction and you get fewer of them. Tax housing transactions and people move much less, and fewer people live in a property that is right for them and their lives. Stamp duty is a travesty.

The Scottish greens propose doubling Scottish stamp duty so it would be 4 x as much as English, which tells you all you need to know about the IQ of the members of the Scottish Green Party.

Sorry, I quoted the wrong poster! My post was not directed at yours!

I don’t really remember the poll tax s as I was a child, but if it was to pay for services used, then the more people who live in a home, the higher the bill should be? More rubbish, more facilities usage, etc.

i live in an area where there are numerous multi generational homes - some large houses have 7-10 adults living in them. They use more facilities than a home with 4 people, for example. They should pay more, I guess.

but I am aware that I don’t fully understand it, so could be wrong, or (unintentionally) ignorant.

if you buy your home, pay the mortgage for years and finally pay it off, you shouldn’t be taxed on the land! Higher earners may buy larger homes, but by being a higher earner, they have been taxed more.

Would people who think they would be adversely affected by a property value based tax prefer that council tax was abolished and income tax were to rise? Or if there was a much simpler but higher method of taxation generally (perhaps cheaper to administer and less being taxed all over the place)?

What would you then suggest about empty property? I personally feel that this should be taxed higher, particularly the flats in London, Manchester that are owned by investors, often offshore. If not in council tax there needs to be tighter rules on ownership and habitation. Again, maybe unpopular to anyone who feels as though their holiday home or investment may fall under those brackets

The current system is vastly unfair and quite odd. I guess people aren't going to like a system that has the potential to leave them worse off and I do get that, but the housing market is part of that problem too.

Not only do I pay more Council tax than the same band in Westminster (which is ridiculously low for the levels of wealth, if you've never seen how low I'd go and look) but I pay more than many other band D's under different councils (and get less in the way of services).
My dad lives in a bigger house in a more affluent area yet our bands are the same and his band D is charged less. Based on the value of the properties in 1991. Not what either of us paid, nor it's current value.

It's also quite an odd way of charging. I am surrounded by neighbours with working adult children at home on a long term basis, but they will pay the same as a house with two adults and only 50% more than one with one adult. I guess that wouldn't change with property value based tax though.

Weirdly the 0.48% of current value is about bang on what I currently pay in council tax which may be why I'm just shrugging over it.

I would hope it will reign in the huge increases in house values and put an incentive on them staying more stable. I know that's a weird thing for a home owner to say, but it can't carry on as it is. People talk about London being unaffordable but it's fast becoming the case in every majority city in the UK

I'd also like to see stamp duty abolished for older people who want to downsize as it is such a big blocker for those that would actually quite like to move and for whom moving might actually allow them to live more independently for longer.

I think AB is more intelligent than this. He knows it does him no good to carry the north at the expense of the south.

Duplicate post

I totally agree. Shafted by the house prices, shafted again by the tax.

Its not like income where youre getting more money in to offset the cost. Its the opposite where youre getting less money in and this just adds insult to injury. 🙄

I suspect this was a political ploy by Burnham to keep his popularity up North, but he's going to have to warn quick and leave his parochialism behind if he wants to run the country.

Personally I think it was a naive and impulsive move and will spook many of his potential voters in London, where Labour has its last remaining heartland, seemingly. Eg Sadiq Khan's safest mayoral seat ever.

Why is a poll tax contradictory? A house that’s been bought for £500k, irrespective of its location has already had stamp duty paid so amending payments retrospectively when they will have paid considerably more tax than a house of 200k is not fair.

People in the North can often have more disposable income than those in the south due to living costs. The gap between earnings and mortgage is smaller in the south for many in London. Yes earnings are higher but it’s relative.

As I said I don’t think the current system is fair either as people are paying disproportionate amounts today. That doesn’t mean we flip it the other way either.

Services used are completely irrelevant to the house size you live in.

unless I have misunderstood your view?

Andy Burnham only cares about the North of England, the South are going to be completely fucked under him.

You are failing to recognise that some people live in areas where a small 2 bed flat can cost £650,000 and all their earnings go to pay the enormous mortgage. Or the pensioner living upstairs mortgage free, but with a minimal income. Burnham's policies are half baked.

If it is .48% of your house value annually, it works out about the same as council tax is currently? I don’t know the ins and outs but I assume whatever they are proposing replaces council tax?

I assume it would also replace the high value council tax scheme currently being developed as well?

For business rates values are revised every 3 years - I would assume a similar system for domestic property? So people would have some stability in their payments.

The current council tax system is very outdated and they currently have to revise it to modernise and bring the values up to date.

So if they don’t go with a % of value how do you propose they do it? They can’t afford to scrap it completely - the tax needs to be paid somewhere. If they don’t tax property at a local level how do local councils obtain funds to operate local services?