AIBU to think most people don’t realise reducing meat will not save the planet and may in fact cause more climate issues.

oh yes, let’s boast to Australia how we don’t ever water our crops, they need to do the same to achieve net 0 water like us. 🫠

You cannot answer because it doesn’t suit your worldview.

Nah, it would patently be like trying to convince a reform voter that Farage is actually a massive bell-end.

I'm not wasting my time trying to convince you that you are wrong. Experience has shown me you can't argue with zealots.

I'm just pointing out to anyone else on the thread that you are talking nonsense, and that the studies that show that are very easy to find.

good to know, but grassland is still an excellent carbon store and is considered more stable due to 90% being underground and therefore more resilient.

both woodland and grassland will have its own ecosystem, woodland doesn’t necessarily have more.

humans cannot farm woodland, but we can grassland. Woodland takes land out of food production.

I’m talking about the health debate around meat here, which is a different topic.

and how do they eat grass differently than their ancestors?

good to know, but grassland is still an excellent carbon store and is considered more stable due to 90% being underground and therefore more resilient.

both woodland and grassland will have its own ecosystem, woodland doesn’t necessarily have more.

humans cannot farm woodland, but we can grassland. Woodland takes land out of food production.

Many scientists disagree with the notion of climate change? Really? Can you name any reputable ones?

Because I thought that the consensus of scientists who believe that man made climate change is real is somewhere over 99%.

Also, when you say that cows are "part of nature", can you point to a wild population of cattle? Because as far as I'm aware, our current domesticated cattle have no wild relatives at all any more. The closest- the aurochs- were hunted to death in the 16th century, and they were very different beasts to the cows that humans have bred.

Edited to add some data: sorry, it's Wikipedia and AI 😳 with sources, because I'm knackered.

So, "99-100%" of climate scientists believe in man made climate change.

And, here's a fact for you: 60% of the entire biomass of life on earth is cattle. What do you think the naturally occurring percentage would be if bovines weren't farmed, and were instead a natural part of a functioning ecosystem, complete with apex predators?

Grassland for cattle is still wonderful for wildlife and if left for multiple years then often very diverse and full of wildlife.

I didn’t say they were the same, however grasslands are actually considered more secure and resilient. 90% of carbon is stored underground in grassland making it more resilient to forest fires etc.

Please answer my questions

However eating animals particularly red meat is bad for your health - cholesterol heart issues and cancers etc - I have been veggie for 40 years and feel meat eaters should reduce their consumption anyway for health reasons

That’s a different argument and many scientists disagree.

I haven’t but I’ll look into it.

because firstly we have people to feed, who can’t eat trees, secondly why trees when grassland is an excellent carbon store and vast amounts of the uk was grasslands with massive grazing ruminants. Grasslands are amazing for wildlife too.

Definitely animal welfare in my opinion is the only argument for veganism, but I personally believe we are a part of nature and not above it, and therefore are a part of the cycle of life and death. However that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do our best to promote welfare as a priority.

the uk is absolutely one of the top counties globally for animal welfare, although there’s outliers and room for improvement in every sector. Unfortunately many consumers either don’t want or can’t afford to pay for it and get their food from abroad where we cannot be sure of their standards.

I don’t really get involved in hunting, it’s not really big where we are. Deer can cause issues though as there are no predators other than humans.

How can we apply a blanket approach to farming when the world has such vast differences in environments?

can you refute any of my points?

I’m a farmer, but before you dismiss this as bias, I don’t have any livestock so do not sell meat.

We own a purely arable based farm and pretty much exclusively grow grain and cereals.

My family had beef cattle on the farm , but they’re sold the heard years before I was born due to lack of profits.

The reason why I say this is due to a few reasons. The soils on our farm are suffering. Especially due to lack of organic content. The soil must be replaced with actual organic matter (like in a garden, it erodes over time and you have to put compost on)

When most farms operated by rotating grazing animals this happens naturally. The grass putting roots down also stops soil erosion, and the dung from the animals too. There are other things that we are just beginning to understand like the important impact of hooves trampling and the delicate micro biome that the cows eating and pooping replenishes.

Just putting dung onto the fields is not enough. Firstly the nutritional balance gets off kilter very quickly (in a way that doesn’t really happen with livestock rotation) and secondly it is difficult to get hold of when you don’t have your own animals.

The alternative to this is fertiliser. Fertilisers are made using fossil fuels. This is far worse for the environment than animals on grassland.

Many farmland is not suitable for cropping. Too hilly/steep, rocky etc. but it is suitable for raising animals, turning otherwise wasted land into human food.

When we have a bad harvest, it often means the crops are not suitable for human consumption. This is then sold for animal feed, turning this into food further down the line as we can then eat the animals. This crop would otherwise have to be destroyed or just left in the field.

But what about greenhouse gases you might be wondering? Animals are PART of the natural cycle. They are not the same as greenhouse gasses released during fossil fuels being burned. Greenhouse gasses are trapped in the soil and plants that they eat, they release and the plants absorb again. plants literally live off carbon dioxide and methane.

How we farm can absolutely negatively affect climate change, but grass fed British beef and lamb is actually important to our ecology and an important food source in order to maximise our environment without destroying it.