White working class children

The decline in academic achievement from WC boys will be complex that will include schools, home life, role models, peers, online influence, physical and mental health, expectations at home.

We as a society will become less rounded if working class experience, creativity, understanding and knowledge isn’t part of the input in our creative, political, social and practical lives.

I am sure we are all aware of the divided society we are currently living in, bridging that divide to have a flourishing society for all is essential. Most schools try to do this, but they can only do so much.

but that's a self fulfilling prophecy. Children from different backgrounds may not be explicitly told "don't go to university" but they will definitely have embedded in them "what is for people like us" What's the saying? "Give me a child until they are six and they will be mine for life"

This is insane!

Our 8 year olds weren’t watching Spider-Man thinking - well he’s deviated from his studies hasn’t he mother!

Our 15 year old, 10 GCSEs (all A grades predicted) still doesn’t know what he wants to do.

Does he need to? He’s being 15, embracing every opportunity offered to him, having fun with his friends and trying to fit in a complicated World Cup watching schedule.

And I still am not sure he would connect Spider-Man with university!

this. Crab bucket teaching starts young same as everything else. You see it on here "I come from a culture where......."

What a terrible, protracted whine. Do you see why that article is problematic?

Exactly. I find it quite frustrating and disturbing that so many people are effectively saying working class people aren’t fit for tertiary education.

Why are schools limited in what they can do?

Are there no careers/ university counselors? I went to school in Ireland back in the early 1980s and even then we had a careers/ university counselor who did aptitude testing and did talks for the whole year as well as multiple individual interviews with all the students in the last two years of school to help guide them in whatever direction would be best for them, and making sure anyone who left after the Inter Cert had a definite plan in mind for work.

Many parents begin dropping hints or even having simple conversations with their children about careers and university during the elementary school years. I certainly did. It never hurts to broaden children's horizons and show them that there's a wider world out there waiting for them.

Treasury ditched numeracy test to increase diversity hires

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/7ee116f7bba68c6d

So you need lower maths grades if not white?

I’m a white, working-class male with straight As. In Britain, I’m a second-class citizen

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/6750bf4e799eea14

Gift article from the telegraph.

I don’t think most 8 year olds think that deeply about whether the hulk or the ghostbusters went to university. Most don’t know the difference between college and university (if they’ve even heard of either) not to mention Americans call university college so watching superhero films isn’t going to add to the understanding.

They'd know from the Dr bit and the bits about research, being kicked out from the university - the whole story, really. Like Dr Henry Jones Jr lecturing, etc, etc. They may not know in words that somebody has to get x at gcse and then a level and go through UCAS, but they see heroes in film, television and cartoons who are intrinsically highly educated. For some children, that doesn't mean it's impossible, but for others, just that fact means their parents will ensure that it's never even going to come up as more than a funny story about what they said they wanted to be when they grew up.

Well apparently starmer is trying to reduce fees for EU students at our struggling unis ! All the while apparently 50 billion is owing from EU student loans.

But what little kid who wants to be a ghostbuster is thinking about whether the ghost busters went to university?
I just don’t think it’s typical for many 8 year olds to know about uni whether they’re rich, poor, black, white or Asian. Said as a parent of a current 8 year old.

Oh, and entitlements will have to be renewed annually from now on, so kids will drop off the PP list (unless somebody decides for comparability that they will still use the Ever 6 marker which remains).

@BurnoutBee I just want to say I think you have a much more nuanced and accurate take on things. I'm not sure why you're being attacked for your posts, other than that generally happens on most threads on MNet.

No, because the FSM is separated at census into Targeted FSM and Expanded FSM. The Targeted is the same group as previously and will attract Pupil Premium, the Expanded will not.

The MIS companies just have to get their acts together and release the updates that will make this possible - preferably before 1st September when kids will be needing to be fed in the next 24 hours or so.

They are thinking about what they'd like to be.

Vet - university
Teacher - university
Doctor - university
Nurse - university
Like Bruce Banner/the Hulk - university
Like Peter Parker/Spiderman - university
Like Matt Murdock/Daredevil - university
Like Tony Stark - university
Like Sheldon Cooper/etc - university
Like Dr Xavier - university
Like T'Challa/Black Panther - university
A Ghostbuster - university
Astronaut - university
Archaeologist - university
Paleontologist - university
Living with gorillas/saving elephants/research/fighting killer sharks/octopuses/aliens - university

Bob the Builder and Postman Pat were exceptions to the general rule that out of the characters children see and the heroes they see, a significant number are all university educated - even the magical ones - so anything related is automatically out of the question if they have a parent who is not academically inclined and wishes to get those stupid ideas out of their head as quickly as possible.

I think the extent you intrinsically feel you belong to a class depends on your surroundings. In a city like London that has seen huge swathes of gentrification in certain areas it is very noticeable.

In my case, I grew up in a working-class undesirable part of the city that became steadily more desirable and middle-class as the years passed. It became a completely different place from the one I grew up in and it was impossible to not feel and notice the class differences. When your neighbourhood changes from an inclusive, diverse place into one that clearly targets people who can afford expensive eateries, art galaries, pilates/yoga studios and other markers of middle-class then you notice the difference. At my DC's primary school there was a very clear divide between MC parents who all congreated together and dominated the PTA vs the WC parents. It's not necessarily spoken about a lot but you feel it intrinsically when the place you grew up and love changes and you become displaced by wealthier newcomers.

@aquashiv

My son is likely to get some great GCSE results. He’s hopefully going to get an apprenticeship as soon as possible. (He’s 16)

A-Levels is 5 days a week so he would struggle to get a part time job. He wants to drive. We can’t afford his lessons. He knows this. He knows he’s going to have to earn some money if he wants things like lads holidays, gym membership, a car etc. He has a few friends at school who are staying on but they will be funded more by their parents.

Level 3 courses at college with A Level equivalency are 3 days a week, freeing up 2 days to work. So that’s another option for him.

If he really wanted to do A-Levels we would have supported him (as he will definitely get the results he needs) but I can say I sighed with some relief when he said he didn’t want to do them.

I guess that’s another point to make isn’t it? If they complete A Levels that is a further 2 years where they cannot earn money. Which is fine in some families, but not really ideal in mine. As I said, my son wants a phone membership, a gym membership, tickets to festivals, driving lessons. When you have multiple kids, these things can quickly become very unaffordable. He is very outgoing. He’s going to need to fund his social life even at 16 and 17+

Many white working-class families reject academic routes because they feel it's a waste of money unless you know what you want to do. They don't suffer from academic snobbery either. University is not the panacea for success; often, they will go back to education later or gain industry-relevant training and qualifications.

We need to think more critically about how we measure success and stop with the patronising nonsense.

@Machinemasoluem

Yes I know exactly what you mean. I just checked, back in 2020 the threshold was 16k and under if you were in receipt of tax credits, which we were. My TA wage was under that.

My sister is in receipt of UC. She has four children, works full time. Earns 28k per annum. So her children will now be entitled to FSM. So yes I understand your point. The stats are going to be massively watered down.

It's not just this forum, people still slavishly align with the class system. I have no idea why.

I think it's an interesting observation that the suggestion is to reopen educational avenues like the vocational schools of the 70s but without the grammar schools to counterbalance them. You do need both and equitable entry into the grammars based on exams.

I wasn’t judging you, my son also gets FSM I actually was under 7k at one point I’m not now though he still gets them until he leaves primary school.

I just think in September when eligibility goes from less than 7.4k to everyone on universal credit then the statistics around this will massively change. At the moment barely any one is eligible for fsm and it will not just include our children but also the children of disabled parents who’s kids are busy caring for them and don’t have time for homework and kids who’s parents have alcohol issues. Just general stuff that makes studying harder.

When it includes every family on UC it will include millions of regular working families and will water down these bad statistics if you know what I mean.