Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

White working class children

747 replies

NotAnotherScarf · 29/06/2026 08:27

The bbc has a report about a review of the academic system failing white working class children. The bulk of the population.

It's brilliant that this has been looked at but the recommendations are appalling.

Basically its saying that wcc's are only fit for manual jobs. That schools should push towards offering for vocational courses.

That's where my education went 40 years ago. One child from my year group of 242 went to university at 18. We had at most 6 kids from non white backgrounds. Many went subsequently. I have always maintained the school saw us as shop assistants, factory hands and dockers.

The other recommendations will help children of all races...free travel under 22. Promoting reading etc.

One of the reasons why kids from other backgrounds are doing better has been the push to get them into university...ie black boys being actively recruited and bursarys being given solely to them. Places sponsored etc etc.

Whilst I welcome the move to vocational training. And for many people thats a brilliant move, ts disappointing that the report thinks that that's the main option for wcc's. Basically its says "we don't think your good enough for anything else " .

BBC News - White working-class children 'failed by schools system' - BBC News
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq51j10q601o

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
Backedoffhackedoff · 29/06/2026 13:40

user1471538275 · 29/06/2026 13:04

What do we want to see happen here?

So the issues: White boys from non working families, who think working is for mugs, living in an area where any work available is likely cash in hand, precarious or public sector.

We want these boys to be able to access what? A local job? A local apprenticeship? University?

A local job - they live in Blackpool, can't afford to learn to drive so are stuck with casual work, if any. Casual work doesn't actually make their life any better than no work at all - still living with family and/or friends in Blackpool.

A local apprenticeship - again what is the availability? Middle class parents are encouraging their children to go into apprenticeships - and they can facilitate this through funding driving lessons, funding a car so their child have a wider area to look for this. Usually has a day at college - can they get there? Does it cost them a lot of money to get there? If they're sitting in class with middle class kids who outperform them (again) they lose hope - who is going to hire them over the well spoken, well presented, well backed kid whose parents will move mountains to get them in with people they know.

University - perceived as 'not for them'. Massive fear of the debt. They are unklikely to be able to afford to visit, likely to need to work alongside to survive - but they don't know anyone in this area so struggle to get a part time job. Parents cannot and will not top them up, don't really understand why they are going and can be negative about their prospects. Even when they manage and do well, graduate jobs have become largely 'who you know' rather than what you know - and they and their parents don't know anyone in the graduate world. So they end up with a degree certificate, a mountain of debt and the feeling that it was all a con - which they will pass on to their own children.

There just aren't the jobs available any more - not for any of us - and this is going to get better. If there aren't jobs then we need to ask what is the purpose of advanced education.

I agree with you but I do think it’s worth raising we’re talking about educational access and achievement. A job isn’t the only, even arguably even the most important outcome of education.

all we’ve spoken about in this thread is employment- but having an educated population is worth far more than just jobs

Cyclebabble · 29/06/2026 13:40

I am pleased to see that some thought is being given to white working class needs. I am not wholly sure about the strategy though. I would like to see a focus on mentoring for working class kids and a series of specific programmes to raise performance.

inkognitha · 29/06/2026 13:39

ClarkeandNewman · 29/06/2026 13:26

You're just not very articulate, sorry. No need to further respond.

As much as you would like to (nice display of authoritarianism and censorship), you don’t get to gatekeep this thread or my posts, thanks for showing your colours.

I stand by what I said. Deal with it.

Conundrummum123 · 29/06/2026 13:37

bobbycock79 · 29/06/2026 13:30

I work in education and am typically pretty left leaning in my views. However a very noticeable (to me) representational issue is in our 6th form area. We have a display of prospectuses and open day posters for over 40 UK universities . Only 2 of those prospectuses or posters have an obviously white young man on them, and a handful with white females. The rest BAME young people.
To a middle class white boy, being pushed by parents, this lack of representation may not matter. However I do feel for a working class white boy, already facing barriers and perhaps wavering on whether higher education is, 'for people like him' , it will be another hurdle.

Are we seriously arguing that the white male is underrepresented in terms of academic success? And that’s the driver?

come off it

Backedoffhackedoff · 29/06/2026 13:33

TwelvePiecesOfFlair · 29/06/2026 12:38

I don’t know too much about higher education now, but back in the day places like Bradford poly did really specific courses in things like industrial chemistry - things linked to the local industries.

Polytechnics weren’t necessarily places where you would train to do the lower paid jobs, but they were rooted in manufacturing, technical, business and industry.
Many polytechnics had very competitive courses, they were not just a slightly shit university.

Agreed but a lot of those jobs don’t exist anymore.

i think that’s part of the issue- a generation of “would be” builders went into IT, and then the demand was so low for building trade apprenticeships the market responded and stopped offering them. It wasn’t noticed for decades thanks to immigration, mainly from Eastern Europe.

now we won’t accept immigrants anymore, we’ve realised we don’t have a workforce who can fill the gaps they left.

TempsPerdu · 29/06/2026 13:30

ClarkeandNewman · 29/06/2026 13:08

Unfounded racism is pushing people towards Reform and Restore? I agree. We're all equipped with a brain; it's a shame not everyone uses it for its intended purpose.

And its intended purpose is…? To agree with you and avoid any kind of ‘wrongthink’ presumably?

I suppose we will just need to wait and see how this all plays out.

bobbycock79 · 29/06/2026 13:30

I work in education and am typically pretty left leaning in my views. However a very noticeable (to me) representational issue is in our 6th form area. We have a display of prospectuses and open day posters for over 40 UK universities . Only 2 of those prospectuses or posters have an obviously white young man on them, and a handful with white females. The rest BAME young people.
To a middle class white boy, being pushed by parents, this lack of representation may not matter. However I do feel for a working class white boy, already facing barriers and perhaps wavering on whether higher education is, 'for people like him' , it will be another hurdle.

CelestialCandyfloss · 29/06/2026 13:29

Backedoffhackedoff · 29/06/2026 10:19

The thing is you can’t recreate the immigrant experience to use it to the benefit British white working class boys.

immigrants have given up a huge amount for a better life in another country so make the most of that opportunity. They make enormous sacrifices to do so. It’s not replicable for someone who doesn’t have that background

Yes I fully understand that. I come from a so called 'working class' background...My parents were /are hardworking and intelligent but neither went to university. They wanted my brother and I to go so they sacrificed quite a lot to send us. But we went in the 90's when we didn't pay tuition fees. The whole British class system is messed up anyway. I have no idea what 'class' I am. I'm a single mum with a good job, a mortgage and a university degree. Some people would say I'm working class, some would say I'm middle class.

ClarkeandNewman · 29/06/2026 13:26

inkognitha · 29/06/2026 13:14

Thanks for the patronising and the assumption that everyone who disagrees with you has been brainwashed. Of course it has to be so.

Sorry it hurts your precious values and sense of moral superiority so much you cannot even bear thinking about it, not rare amongst the "progressive".

But indiscriminately punishing a group for the mistakes of their ancestors or the actions of some of their members is NOT justice.

You're just not very articulate, sorry. No need to further respond.

Conundrummum123 · 29/06/2026 13:24

wombat1a · 29/06/2026 13:13

I think white males are now days at a disadvantage. I would say at least 50% if the job adverts in my field say things like "If you are from a minority group we garentee you an interview" or "For this position there are grants available for females only". Now the grants thing is huge as the ability to find grants for funding your research is a major factor in getting the job.....

It seems to me that the white lads of today are the ones paying for the past privilege of the white lads from years gone by.

To that I’d say ‘when you’re so used to supremacy, equality feels like oppression’

Honeyhonay · 29/06/2026 13:19

wombat1a · 29/06/2026 13:13

I think white males are now days at a disadvantage. I would say at least 50% if the job adverts in my field say things like "If you are from a minority group we garentee you an interview" or "For this position there are grants available for females only". Now the grants thing is huge as the ability to find grants for funding your research is a major factor in getting the job.....

It seems to me that the white lads of today are the ones paying for the past privilege of the white lads from years gone by.

I would say at least 50% if the job adverts in my field say things like "If you are from a minority group we garentee you an interview"

Jesus where do people get this shit from.

inkognitha · 29/06/2026 13:14

ClarkeandNewman · 29/06/2026 13:05

You're just being silly at this point. I'm after reasoned debate, not a mishmash of whatever your algorithms have served you up today.

Thanks for the patronising and the assumption that everyone who disagrees with you has been brainwashed. Of course it has to be so.

Sorry it hurts your precious values and sense of moral superiority so much you cannot even bear thinking about it, not rare amongst the "progressive".

But indiscriminately punishing a group for the mistakes of their ancestors or the actions of some of their members is NOT justice.

wombat1a · 29/06/2026 13:13

I think white males are now days at a disadvantage. I would say at least 50% if the job adverts in my field say things like "If you are from a minority group we garentee you an interview" or "For this position there are grants available for females only". Now the grants thing is huge as the ability to find grants for funding your research is a major factor in getting the job.....

It seems to me that the white lads of today are the ones paying for the past privilege of the white lads from years gone by.

ClarkeandNewman · 29/06/2026 13:08

TempsPerdu · 29/06/2026 13:04

You can think what you like; it’s just an anecdote containing some personal observations. I do think this sort of thing is probably pushing an increasing number of people in Sarah Pochin’s direction. Reform and Restore are not for me, but where I would most certainly have described myself as being of the Left a decade ago (I was a Lib Dem member at one point), I am definitely starting to veer rightwards - quite liking the look of Kemi Badenoch at the moment.

Unfounded racism is pushing people towards Reform and Restore? I agree. We're all equipped with a brain; it's a shame not everyone uses it for its intended purpose.

ClarkeandNewman · 29/06/2026 13:05

inkognitha · 29/06/2026 12:54

The way the Left is going at it, it is totally a vendetta.

It is not fairly repairing the mistakes of the past, as much as taking the perceived "oppressers" a peg or two or five, as the PP demonstrates by talking about taking away ppl's "hegemony".

It is punishment, it is self-hatred, it is revenge, it is not justice, nor fairness.

You're just being silly at this point. I'm after reasoned debate, not a mishmash of whatever your algorithms have served you up today.

user1471538275 · 29/06/2026 13:04

What do we want to see happen here?

So the issues: White boys from non working families, who think working is for mugs, living in an area where any work available is likely cash in hand, precarious or public sector.

We want these boys to be able to access what? A local job? A local apprenticeship? University?

A local job - they live in Blackpool, can't afford to learn to drive so are stuck with casual work, if any. Casual work doesn't actually make their life any better than no work at all - still living with family and/or friends in Blackpool.

A local apprenticeship - again what is the availability? Middle class parents are encouraging their children to go into apprenticeships - and they can facilitate this through funding driving lessons, funding a car so their child have a wider area to look for this. Usually has a day at college - can they get there? Does it cost them a lot of money to get there? If they're sitting in class with middle class kids who outperform them (again) they lose hope - who is going to hire them over the well spoken, well presented, well backed kid whose parents will move mountains to get them in with people they know.

University - perceived as 'not for them'. Massive fear of the debt. They are unklikely to be able to afford to visit, likely to need to work alongside to survive - but they don't know anyone in this area so struggle to get a part time job. Parents cannot and will not top them up, don't really understand why they are going and can be negative about their prospects. Even when they manage and do well, graduate jobs have become largely 'who you know' rather than what you know - and they and their parents don't know anyone in the graduate world. So they end up with a degree certificate, a mountain of debt and the feeling that it was all a con - which they will pass on to their own children.

There just aren't the jobs available any more - not for any of us - and this is going to get better. If there aren't jobs then we need to ask what is the purpose of advanced education.

TempsPerdu · 29/06/2026 13:04

ClarkeandNewman · 29/06/2026 12:49

I don't know why but this post is very redolent of Sarah Pochin.

You can think what you like; it’s just an anecdote containing some personal observations. I do think this sort of thing is probably pushing an increasing number of people in Sarah Pochin’s direction. Reform and Restore are not for me, but where I would most certainly have described myself as being of the Left a decade ago (I was a Lib Dem member at one point), I am definitely starting to veer rightwards - quite liking the look of Kemi Badenoch at the moment.

Conundrummum123 · 29/06/2026 13:03

Lordofthebantams · 29/06/2026 12:50

The problem is it's not really a school issue. These are the kids from unstable backgrounds. Multiple kids by multiple men, parents with their own chaos.

At the weekend instead of visiting places and seeing and learning and developing interests, they are at home on the Xbox.

Instead of holidays that contain some sort of cultural experience it's going to Haven and staying up late in the disco with a blue slushie.

Parents often don't work or only one does. Stay home Mum on benefits who still has a comfortable life in a council provided property, nails done, caravan holidays and an Xbox. They see parents that don't achieve much but benefits pays their lifestyle,so why bother working hard.

They don't have a routine so they go to bed late and are tired and hyperactive the next day. Diet is poor which means they are lethargic. Cheerios before school so they can't concentrate. It goes on and on....

But then explain why this only impacts boys?

inkognitha · 29/06/2026 13:02

inkognitha · 29/06/2026 12:54

The way the Left is going at it, it is totally a vendetta.

It is not fairly repairing the mistakes of the past, as much as taking the perceived "oppressers" a peg or two or five, as the PP demonstrates by talking about taking away ppl's "hegemony".

It is punishment, it is self-hatred, it is revenge, it is not justice, nor fairness.

And to add, the logic of "as long as white supremacy (or whatever) has been dismantled a bit further, does not really matter if the wrong white person has been targeted, it s still for the greater good"

It is exactly the same logic that says "the ppl of village A have been done harm by ppl from village B, so the men of B can rape one of their girls, doesn't really repair things or punish the real culprits, but it will be justice anyway."

Vendetta. Vengeance. Retribution.
Not justice or systemic reparation or whatever bs you try to drape it with.

CharSiu · 29/06/2026 12:54

if you look deeper it clearly shows that some races nationalities do better and quite frankly it’s parental involvement. I’m of Chinese origin and there is no way kids misbehave like white children do. My DS is mixed and I was not as strict as my parents but I was much stricter than DS friends.

I personally don’t like DEI initiatives, there was a time when they were needed. There is still racism but it is not going to stop it.

inkognitha · 29/06/2026 12:54

ClarkeandNewman · 29/06/2026 12:47

How exactly is recognition of historic systemic bias and prejudice and the normalisation of a particular world view synonymous with punishment?

The way the Left is going at it, it is totally a vendetta.

It is not fairly repairing the mistakes of the past, as much as taking the perceived "oppressers" a peg or two or five, as the PP demonstrates by talking about taking away ppl's "hegemony".

It is punishment, it is self-hatred, it is revenge, it is not justice, nor fairness.

Luckydog7 · 29/06/2026 12:53

TeenLifeMum · 29/06/2026 09:03

I worked on a project in my county about 12 years ago called narrowing the gap and it was based around white working class boys. The biggest issue that separates them from other ethnic groups is the fact their parents do not value education and the work ethic is very lacking. Not encouraging homework, not backing school discipline etc. It has a huge impact and I’m not sure schools can fix it. There are groups of parents in society who cannot imagine their dc achieving and would be unhappy if their dc did better than them (eg went to uni). I’ve seen it.

This is true In a lot of circumstances.

My DHs extended maternal family are exactly this. He vividly remembers his grandfather seeing him reading and saying 'what good will that do you!?' and similar comments about leaving for school on time, exams etc. like the parents the book Matilda.

Weirdly it's an attitude that has even carried on into the next generation. His mother (who was the first in her very large family to go to university) is incredible negative about anything that would 'better' yourself and picks holes in everything. She never once praised him despite him getting the most GCSEs in his year group, criticised his degree choice etc.

And this that's is coming from someone who got married young, decided she wanted something else and left with her two babies to go and get a degree. Its an attitude that's so ingrained. Baffling.

Tonissister · 29/06/2026 12:52

OP, I agree it is sensible to be wary. But too many people have been peddled a myth that university is a guarantee of a better life. Many of them not academically inclined.

I feel uncomfortable at your suggestion that vocational work implies they are not capable of anything else. To me, it's more important that we don't venerate academic prowess over practical prowess. Who would you rather be stuck on a desert island with - a builder or a philosopher? The trades earn way better money than many academia-based careers.

Lordofthebantams · 29/06/2026 12:50

The problem is it's not really a school issue. These are the kids from unstable backgrounds. Multiple kids by multiple men, parents with their own chaos.

At the weekend instead of visiting places and seeing and learning and developing interests, they are at home on the Xbox.

Instead of holidays that contain some sort of cultural experience it's going to Haven and staying up late in the disco with a blue slushie.

Parents often don't work or only one does. Stay home Mum on benefits who still has a comfortable life in a council provided property, nails done, caravan holidays and an Xbox. They see parents that don't achieve much but benefits pays their lifestyle,so why bother working hard.

They don't have a routine so they go to bed late and are tired and hyperactive the next day. Diet is poor which means they are lethargic. Cheerios before school so they can't concentrate. It goes on and on....

ClarkeandNewman · 29/06/2026 12:49

TempsPerdu · 29/06/2026 12:24

OK then, let’s look at how this stuff feeds into schools in practice, regardless of what in their purest sense CRT and ‘white privilege’ ideology set out to achieve

One small anecdote from the school I know most intimately (no longer involved there as we’ve relocated, but my daughter was until recently a pupil, I was a governor and I volunteered there twice weekly so was in class a fair bit). School is about 50% white British and 50% other ethnicities. London suburb, very socially mixed.

In Year 1 my daughter did a topic on space discoveries from their new, freshly decolonised, curriculum. Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin were mentioned in passing; Yuri Gagarin not at all. Tim Peake and Helen Sherman - actual British astronauts - completely glossed over. The main focus - PowerPoint presentations, online research, work in books, homework task set- was on Mae Jemison. Year 5 did a similar unit the same year, and their focus was on the film Hidden Figures - watched the film in class, set homework task etc.

Later the same year came a unit on famous aviators: Bessie Coleman discussed at length (another follow-up homework research task set on black aviators); the Wright Brothers mentioned in passing; Amelia Earhart and Amy Johnson (again, British) completely omitted.

The space topic was actually raised in a governors’ meeting, as the school was very proud of their new curriculum and used it as an exemplar. It was explicitly stated by the SLT that the expectation was that children would learn about the more obviously famous pioneer astronauts either via parental input or by some kind of ‘cultural osmosis’ because they lived in a majority white culture. Of course, we filled in the gaps with DD through books and museum visits etc, but this doesn’t work for the working class white kids, who don’t have access to these things and don’t have parental expertise to draw on, so many of them would have remained none the wiser.

The school library was also decolonised - I volunteered there too. Enid Blyton, Roald Dahl, Rudyard Kipling and The Secret Garden were thrown out (problematic), as were Shirley Hughes, Judith Kerr and Jill Murphy (twee and old hat). Most of the old picture books were replaced by new issues-based ones, all bought from the same ‘diverse books’ website. Many of these were extremely didactic and lacked any kind of story or humour. When I volunteered with KS1 they spent most of the time asking where the animal/dinosaur/funny books had gone. Eventually some of them stopped coming to the library entirely.

Whether it’s well-intentioned or driven by political ideology this stuff has real-world impacts. The white working class issue aside, a particular issue for me is that, because they are lifted directly from American political ideology, these decolonised curriculums heavily feature black role models at the expense of other groups, and often actually fail to reflect the minority groups within the school (our main ones where Turkish/Kurdish, Albanian and South Asian, not Black).

I don't know why but this post is very redolent of Sarah Pochin.

Swipe left for the next trending thread