AIBU to think some fatal driving offences should be manslaughter?

@Whichnumbers There’s info on this in the sentencing regulations.

32 people were killed by firearms in the year up to 31 March 2025. 1/4 of these were in London.

My ds when he was 17 witnessed his friend hit by a driver doing 74mph in a 40mph zone. He died in hospital a few hours later. This driver would not plead guilty despite camera evidence and thus dragged the three 17 year olds who witnessed it through a court case as witnesses. The driver got four years, probably out in two. The effects on everyone has been awful.

I assume the sentence was reduced as he pleaded guilty. I’m surprised the sentence was not called in because it could have been longer but it’s not death by dangerous driving.

Find a way to ban them before they kill someone. Life ban for anyone caught drink or drug driving a 2nd time. Prison for anyone caught driving whilst banned

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2nzd4r63go

They certainly should be banned from driving for life. Not a fatality but might well as been, was the poor personal trainer who is now paralysed from the neck down. A silly little boy thought it was clever to overtake cars using his knees to steering while filming it. He hit her stationary car. He's only banned from driving for 40 months. Will try and find the link. Poxy prison sentence as well.

@Whichnumbers Well most farmers aren’t criminals. Most guns used in anger on others are illegally held guns. The comparison with driving is a false one and sentencing is therefore different: look at the sentencing guidelines!

The MoJ spends around £15 billion a year so we need some big sums from criminals to fund any of that.

One of the many tragedies that always stays with me is the driver that had drugs and alcohol in his system and hit and killed three boys at the same time. He got 13 years plus a 13 year driving ban. How can 3 lives be worth only 13 years?

We need suspended sentences for any disqualification; get caught driving while disqualified, and you’re inside: so many driving offences are committed by those already disqualified, and their penalty? Disqualification! Of course, we don’t have the prison space for this.

(If only prisons could be funded by confiscation of the assets of wealthy career criminals, but this will never happen.)

@Whichnumbers We recognize they are not the same crime. Using a shot gun is illegal. Full stop. Driving a car is not. Using a gun is pretty much premeditated. Lots of traffic accidents are not. Most are misjudgements and catastrophic mistakes.

The sentences for dangerous driving can be substantial but there are sentencing guidelines. Death by Careless driving is not the same offence either. It carries a much lighter sentence and there are various factors courts must consider when sentencing. It’s not one size fits all.

Bereaved people usually want someone locked up and the key thrown away but the max sentence for death by careless driving is 4 years. Much lower than for dangerous driving. It can be a community service order. It all depends on what happened and why.

Decade?

On the ban thing given that we have telemetry now you could allow them to drive but only for certain journeys like going to work or taking their kids to school/medical appointments.

Anything else that they can't reasonably explain like needing to take a diversion because of roadworks means they are back inside for a week.

Yes I also agree. It might stop people being ludicrously reckless like driving right at people crossing a road (they might come around a corner and you are already there and they don't like it) or overtaking when you are doing the speed limit or overtaking cyclists when cars are coming towards them.

A while ago a drunk driver killed two girls when they were doing their athletics training in Hampshire and he was only given 6 years so out in 3.

Can I make a few points

The reason why we have 'death by dangerous driving' is the unwillingness of Juries to convict on manslaughter charges

Sentencing is governed by sentencing council guidelines there is I suggest a question of how causing death by dangerous driving compares with other offences in terms of sentences. An obvious suggestion might be an exercise in trying to 'compare' recommended sentences across the board so that there is some sort of similar crimes attract similar sentences.

My suggestion might to look at the Dutch approach and make greater use of secure hospitals for more serious offenders.

There is then the question of disqualification. On the one hand The Secret Barrister points out rightly that a lifetime ban could be counter productive in that someone who having 'turned their life around' and started to act like a sensible human being would none the less never be able to drive again. My suggestion would be and it would depend on the seriousness of the offence that offenders should have a 'tariff' ban that they have to serve - reset to zero if they are caught driving when disqualified followed by something similar to a Parole Board hearing before they can be reconsidered for a retest and significant restrictions if they do manage to pass.

As amongst other things a Parliamentary Committee has pointed out breaching a driving ban does not attract the level of penalty that breaching other 'prohibitions' does. I would suggest that driving when banned should be treated the same way as an injunction with power of arrest ie straight to detention until a Judge is free to deal with you and probably serve the rest of the ban in jail.

Finally of course we need to look at at road traffic enforcement, getting the drunk, dangerous and illegal off the road and keeping them off the roads. On the spot bans, confiscate vehicles and heavy fines/jail for driving like a twat.

The latest jolly jape is driving at speed whilst under the influence of nitrous oxide.

Some are prosecuted as manslaughter.

It’s much easier to get a conviction for death by dangerous driving than it is for manslaughter. The CPS isn’t going to pursue a manslaughter charge unless they have a realistic chance of conviction.

I believe the reason why death by dangerous driving was introduced as an offense in the first place was because juries almost always refused to convict drivers of manslaughter.

This is very true - the lad that killed my Grandma in a hit and run had no insurance and was already disqualified from driving for a previous hit and run (in that instance he only broke someone’s arm). He got 8 years in prison and an 8 year driving ban.

There's been several cases where a car has been used as a weapon and the person has been convicted of murder.

if some of the police shows are anything to go by, the people who commit crimes that result in their license being revoked are generally not the kind who care about driving with any license or insurance, and a ban, lifetime or otherwise, will be of no consequence to them.

My job is investigating fatal road traffic collisions (I’m a Police Detective). It is very difficult to manage the expectations of family members with regards to sentencing guidelines for road traffic offences. I have investigated the most horrific of collisions where a suspect is drunk/drugged/unlicensed/failed to stop and they have not received more than 8 years (and will serve 4).

In every case I have prosecuted for Causing Death by Careless Driving (not dangerous), the defendant has not received any kind of custodial sentence. This is something that families can’t comprehend either- their loved one wiped out in an instant and the most the defendant gets is a ban/fine/community order.

Every single case we get a conviction on I just feel flat and disheartened as there really is no form of justice, and ultimately no sentence imposed would bring that person back. It’s a very sad job!

The offences of causing death by careless driving/dangerous driving were brought in because juries were extremely reluctant to convict drivers who killed of manslaughter.

The defence would always do the “ladies and gentlemen, it could have been any one of you making a momentary mistake at the wheel - why would you condemn this upstanding young man to a lifetime of blah blah” routine and juries bought it every time. Probably because they all used to drive while pissed too, as was de rigeur in the 70s and 80s.

If you want to get away with murder, use a car as the weapon