Tipping waiting staff..

Maybe if all the minimum and low paid workers got paid tips they could afford to eat out more often.

But they don't and being forced to top up a wage larger than their own for a service which requires fewer skills than their own job is too much for many people.

Still though, they are influenced by the wealthy who tell them 'you must pay this extra or you can't have this thing we take for granted' - if you can't afford to pay more then stay at home pleb.

I find lower paid or working class people more generous and more sensitive to being seen as tight.

Believe you me, the first time I did it, my dd was ready to crawl under the chair 😁
Now she doesn’t even raise an eyebrow.

@HelpSendMoreMuesli The staff will come running out after you if you do that in the USA. They will want to know what was wrong!

I tend to think a very good meal with various courses is about more than just the kitchen but I would prefer the price to include everything. I think if someone can afford a top class restaurant, pay the price required. If it’s a pizza or burger and chips, deduct the top! It wholly depends where you eat.

I was just thinking about this. I was looking at an Afternoon Tea , £50 a head. Then it said 12.5% will be added.
I know it’s usually discretionary for small groups (I’ve seen some compulsory for larger groups ) but it’s a piss take. I don’t go out as much as I used to , partly due to money but it’s not that nice anymore.
As you say , they are doing their job. I don’t get tips.

Typical MN “logic”.

this is one of those sayings that people repeat without realising that it makes no sense. Why not 'if you can afford a main course you can afford three courses. If you can afford half a pint you can afford a cocktail. If you can afford the beefeater you can afford the ritz. If you can afford a meal for 2 you can cover the whole table. If you can afford to tip 15% you can afford to tip 30%.'

Why is not wanting to pay one extraneous payment cheap but not others?

Besides which its missing the key point that OP CAN'T afford the meal she wants (i.e. including a drink) and a tip.

It's also extremely snobby. So if other minimum wage workers can't really afford to tip because they are already stretching themselves to afford the very occasional treat out, they should just sit at home in the dark?

Because at least some, if not all, of the people who have contributed to serving me will benefit.
Isn't that the point?

So you say you tip for good service yet admit you don’t know where your tip is going, so why bother to tip?

Always tip in cash so whatever/whoever the establishment's custom is. I can't dictate that.

But who will benefit from your tip? The chef? Waiters? Barmen? Cleaners?

I've not come across a pre added service charge yet in the UK but as I object to paying a % I would ask for it to be removed.
I will tip but based on the amount of effort and quality of the service. Four x £5 drinks brought from the bar takes far more effort than delivering and not even opening one bottle of £30 wine. Four x three course lunch menu meals take more effort than four single plates off the expensive a la carte menu.
That's my logic and I'm sticking to it 😊
My hairdresser comes to my home and cuts my husband's and my hair for £25 but I give her £30. She does a great job and is great with my husband who has Alzheimer's. Again, that's my logic and I'm happy with it.

I do usually tip, unless service has been dismal, I don’t eat in very expensive restaurants as a rule though .
We once went to a bar in London , was around 10 of us , we ordered several bottles wine at the bar, waited and was told to sit down , which we did . The bill then arrived with a sizeable service charge included which we asked for to be removed ( we were standing at bar fully prepared to carry our drinks the 10 metres to our table ) and it was a lot , central London prices.
The waitress called the manager who asked what was wrong , nothing but explained we were unhappy with the charge , he was extremely put out to say the least & one of our party overheard him calling us cheapskates 🤣

I always tip my hairdresser & beautician , but only by rounding the bill up to nearest fiver

Tipped workers are also taxed on the assumption of their tips, so if they aren't tipped as expected they as individuals are out of pocket

Not any more, @onlygeese:

Edited to add that the extra 20% for British football fans doesn't surprise me in the least. Obviously they vary, but if their behaviour in the US is anything like that of too many at home thhe staff will deserve it for the kind of cleaning up they'll have to do

https://www.fidelity.com/learning-center/personal-finance/no-tax-on-tips

@Puzzledandpissedoff I tried searching for the article I'd read for you but my feed was flooded with stories about Kansas City bars and restaurants in particular adding a 20% service to World Cup fans bills because they didn't trust them to tip properly.

It's interesting that reading the comments a lot of people are saying they will give cash so it goes directly to the server. If you have had a good meal out do you not want it to go to the chef who made it?!
As pointed out a lot of staff have to hand over any cash they are given and it has to be put into a shared pot. Then it is divided between all staff on shift that night.

I have heard some restaurants don't serve cruise ships visitors from outside the USA because they refuse to tip

That honestly surprises me when you consider that many cruise ships are already tip-heavy, and having been on board you'd think they'd be used to it

That said it's getting even more complex now, with tips, gratuities, service charge, favors and staff appreciation (I may have missed some) all being used interchangeably. Presumably it's done in the hope some will stump up several times, and presumably with some it even works

@peachyhead if you mean the little speech given by the workers themselves at the start or end of the actual tour they are just a normal part of US vacations and I would be surprised if the Americans didn't expect them. It is just done differently.

Also while every US state is different some have a different minimum wage for tipped workers. Tipped workers are also taxed on the assumption of their tips, so if they aren't tipped as expected they as individuals are out of pocket.
It isn't the same situation as the UK.

We were the only non Americans on any of the excursions we went on.

I don't use the post office but I give my binmen a tip from time to time and always offer them a drink.

I can only assume that they have to give this speech to foreign tourists, people from the USA wouldn't dream of not tipping after a serviced meal. It is the respectful cultural norm. It is also usual after tours etc. I have heard some restaurants don't serve cruise ships visitors from outside the USA because they refuse to tip.

Just to add, I'm always upfront about the fact I prefer to tip cash and request no service charge so it just doesn't get added because I couldn't be doing with the faff of waiting to have it taken off.

I've always tipped, even when I earned next to nothing. It's just how I was brought up, and is very much the norm where I'm from, but we live in a country where it's very much personal choice.

I have precisely zero sympathy for people who can't even be arsed to read up on the cultural norms of countries they're visiting who then cry about those norms being different to home.

Regards service charge, it's optional and you can have it removed. I tend to have it removed purely because I prefer to manage my tip myself and would generally tip more than the obligatory 12% service charge. I also prefer to tip in cash because frankly, if whoever has actually waited on our table pockets the whole amount rather than putting it into a collective pot then good for them.

It’s not just tipping these days I find shops are also asking to ‘ round up for charity ‘

That's another Americanism that's made its way over here with an awful inevitability. I first encountered it in a Goodwill store of all places, where the vast majority of the goods were donated and the staff volunteers, and on an $11-ish bill they wanted $15