AIBU to be confused about how teachers' salaries are paid?

I work about 3 weeks out of the 13 weeks holiday. Still leaves me with twice as much as I got in a non-teaching career. I think the holidays are fantastic. But I think people’s resentment/jealousy of the holidays muddies their view of teachers overall.

Hi @MyLimeGuide , my name is saraclara and I was a teacher who worked during the summer holidays. Let me introduce you to my DD and son in law; teachers who timetable two weeks of their five and a half week summer holiday, and at least two or three days of each other holiday, to work.

Now you 'know' three of us.

@MyLimeGuide Are you secondary or primary?

Ive been teaching for about 14 years i don't know anyone who works over the summer, or any school hols is she SLT?

If we let teachers teach and other paid professionals do the other stuff and parents cut the entitlement, then our schools would be full of well motivated enthusiastic teachers who would educate our children. Never met a teacher who didn't like teaching. It's way they chose the profession.

I actually work 195 days a year on a full time salary.

31 days of holiday (increased to this after 5 years of service.)
8 days of bank holiday
AWA which means I spread 10 days of work over 9 and therefore have every other Friday off, so another 26 days off.

Outside my 195 days, I don't even check my emails. My phone is switched off. My laptop stays in my work bag.

And no-one tells me how overpaid I am for being off 1/4 of the year. 😂

Well, the pp you are responding to left teaching, so you’ve answered your own question. She left, along with many others.

Perhaps the question we as a society should be asking ourselves is, if so many people are finding teaching so untenable that they have to leave - despite the holidays which are, as you are at pains to point out, fantastic - - what is wrong with the system? Not the teachers, the system? Because there is a retention crisis and it is, right now, impacting kids education. I suspect you might not be so gleeful in your bashing of teachers when your kids are taught by constantly changing non-specialist supply teachers. Or rather, you’ll still be bashing teachers, but perhaps without the goady, ‘pull your socks up’ tone.

I wondered why all the teachers in our children's school had their children in September and October, I'm not joking either. I would say nearly all were born in Christmas term.

@AImportantMermaid Clearly you've never been a teacher! 😄
Furthermore, the job 22 years ago was nothing like the job it is now!!
Try teaching and get back to me.

I don’t understand why people teach when they clearly hate it so much. I mean, surely you knew all this before you went into the profession?

Not to quibble but GCSE marking is happening now, in term time. Final deadline is before the end of term.

@AImportantMermaid As a non-teacher you can take your holidays whenever you feel like it...they can even be child-free!! You can perhaps even afford to take a holiday abroad in term-time! Even better, you can actually have a holiday in which you don't do any work.
Leaving teaching after 22 years in was one of the best decisions I ever made.

DH has a PhD (science) and know a few people similar who have tried to make the jump to teaching and it’s never worked out well. It’s right, being clever doesn’t make you a good teacher.
i think they would be better looking at other industries to find teachers - acting, military? I don’t think you need a degree to teach a particular subject, lots of teachers don’t have them in what they teach.

It’s what you choose though, isn’t it? You can take the time off and then you don’t have to pay for childcare, or you can get a summer job and, like everyone else who has to work through holidays, pay for childcare/use summer clubs/rely on friends or relatives. Either way, it’s a win! You either don’t have to pay childcare, or you get a job that can cover childcare costs.

I am an ex teacher and married to a deputy head
Teaching is without a doubt the toughest job I’ve ever had, however it is also the best paid job I’ve ever had
When I trained there was a huge shortage of secondary school teachers in certain subjects and I was paid to train. My degree was a 2:2 in a very loosely connected course this is how desperate they were for teachers!! The only other jobs that were giving me offers at the time were call centre jobs and
the pay was the best bit about teaching.
the stress and constant criticism (from pupils, parents, staff) was relentless. I work in the nhs (nursing role but not fully qualified nurse) and it’s nowhere near as stressful. But much lower pay.
I think it’s difficult to compare to law, medicine etc as these are so much more competitive fields to enter and academically you need to be very strong
ive worked with teachers with phds who can’t control a class…there’s a bit of an X factor with teaching thats hard to define and less about being academically strong.
The pay does attract people to teaching. The problems with retention in teaching isn’t the pay.

@AImportantMermaid How do you think teachers who also have young families of their own can "just get another job."
You're pulling my chain, right?
And how many hours a week do you think the average teacher works?

To be fair, those salary levels are for senior roles in those professions. The doctor salaries are for consultant level roles and the pharmacy salary is for a manager pharmacist - they’ll manage a shop or a hospital function, or they’ll be doing research for big pharma. In a university £65k+ is associate professor level - just below full professor.

Police officers tend to earn more on part because it’s hard to attract the right type of person, and they need to work unsocial hours often in risky situations.

That’s great actually - so if you’re not employed for two months of the year you can get another job - I guess lots do GCSE marking - or things like Camp America, or even just take 6 weeks abroad, and of course it works brilliantly for looking after your own kids which saves an absolute fortune in childcare. What a joy and a privilege while the rest of us are sitting in our sweaty offices analysing tax returns 😂 My teacher friend and her teacher DH have a house in France and the minute that last bell of the summer rings they jump in the car and head for the Dover ferry.

Nobody who actually has any insight to the actual hours the average teacher works would describe the pay as "good." The conditions certainly aren't.

Its not exclusive to teaching in any shape or form, but my understanding is that the turnover for teachers is higher than average, especially during the first 5 years and this has an impact on society. We have targets for the number of teachers needed, we offer bursaries and train people that clearly want to fill those vacancies- its a waste if we dont make it a bit pleasant to stay in teaching to at least an average of people who stay in professional roles they train for, for a longer period of time. Its actually pretty crap when your childs sitting gcse, thier teachers leaves mid course and a replacement can't be found. It also has knock on of not enough experienced teachers to guide young ones. Im not a teacher but I believe very strongly in a functioning education system. Its a major public service and aiming for average shouldnt be a ridiculous target.

It is also actually frequently talked about as an issue in other fields where is a problem but they dont necessarily have such on obvious impact for a parenting forum or such large work forces,. Vets are always talking about it.

I also think ultimately when people talk about attrition in other industries people express concern that the environment is wrong or hard in someway or pay is lower than it should be (or both). They fault the system. Teachings is one of the few where they say but the holidays and pay are good so the individuals must be crap people who moan.

Where do you get Architect earning 65k+? You'd be talking associate level for that salary.

None so blind as those that don't want to see.

It's the same with so many other professions. Young adults choose a college course or job based on their life experiences at that age, fast forward a few years - degree finished, a few years worked and they are realizing it's no longer a job they like or are willing to stay with. I've seen it numerous times from accountants, doctors and nurses, solicitors, engineers, all sorts of jobs. It's not exclusive to teaching but for some reason it becomes more vocal from the educational professions.

@CrispySquid I think a good number of graduates do consider the pay and conditions ok but think the job itself is a bit naff. If they leave uni at 21 then education is all they know. It’s a normal thing to want to get out and do something different.

Yes theres graduates doing shelf stacking and Maccys but they don’t consider them careers as they would have to with teaching,

I left primary teaching after 22 years in a couple of years ago. The hours I was working had become all-consuming; working 7.30 - 5.45 then often again in the evenings, at weekends and throughout the holidays. I barely saw my own little girl.
I now tutor and I am literally paid only for the hours I work on a rate below that of my teacher pay scale. I am not paid over any of the school holidays or if I am off sick.
Most definitely a pay cut. No teacher pension.
But...
I have my life back.
Nothing - absolutely nothing - would encourage me back to classroom teaching.