To think this stance is hypocritical?

@Swiftie1878

No idea - but even if he weren't actually to act on it, it's still upsetting to have it said to me, just as it's upsetting for other minorities to have people saying horrible things about them.

@CurlewKate

I personally give weight to John Beckett's words on the matter, from his blog post 'Facts and Reason in Paganism'

Facts And Reason In Paganism – Avoiding Materialist Assumptions | John Beckett

"Materialist assumptions are assumptions, not facts.

Materialism is not consumerism. Materialism is the philosophical assumption that all that exists is matter and the products of its interactions. It reduces human experiences of love and beauty to the interactions of brain chemistry. It assumes that Gods and spirits not only do not exist, they cannot exist.

Some scientists believe that quantum physics disproves materialism. I’m not sure it does, and in any case I’m very uncomfortable invoking quantum physics to “prove” anything. As a field of science, it’s still in its infancy. But whether it does or it doesn’t, materialism remains an assumption of science (or rather, of many scientists), not a finding of science.

So when someone says “there’s no way magic could work” what they’re really saying is “there’s no way magic could work in a materialist universe.” Magic could work by the intercession of Gods and spirits, but materialism refuses to consider that possibility. It says there is no evidence, but it excludes non-material evidence. All the times magic does work are dismissed as coincidences and confirmation bias, because the evidence points toward conclusions that invalidate their materialist assumptions and they refuse to question them.

That isn’t science – it’s claiming science proves something when it doesn’t.
Materialism need not lead to nihilism. Naturalists, humanists, and other non-theists take the assumptions of materialism and say “yes, and life is still beautiful and meaningful.” That’s a valid spiritual path, and for some, the only spiritual path they can embrace with integrity. But like all religious and philosophical paths it’s based on foundational assumptions that are ultimately unprovable."

@CurlewKate

As far as I'm aware, science does not say that magic/occultism is not true.

Philosophical materialism is not the same thing as "science." Materialism is an opinion, not a finding of science.

Science may not currently provide support for occultism, but that's entirely different to saying that occultism isn't real/true.

@Blimms

I am not attempting to shut you down. You are free to say what you like. I am simply saying that I view it as prejudice.

Occultists are not anti-science at all; the majority uphold science. Not sure why you are conflating 'anti-science' with occultism, it doesn't reflect the mainstream of occultists at all.

I am certainly not anti-science in any way. I accept current scientific knowledge as accurate (evolution, for example.)

I simply believe in additional things.

I mean, I think everyone who voted for Trump is a bloody idiot, is that prejudice?

I loathe Trump, but having a negative view of every single individual who voted for him (without knowing them personally) would probably count as prejudice, as the term is generally defined. It could be seen (depending on one's view) as a more understandable or even justified (to a degree) prejudice, but it would probably count as prejudice.

I personally don't think that having a negative view of all occultists simply because we are occultists is a justified prejudice. We think and behave differently to you; that doesn't make us uniformly bad people. I presume that you have not spent a high amount of time amongst occultists, but I like to think that if you ever got to know any significantly well, you'd perhaps rather like them?

I don't think it's accurate to say that occultists are "ignoring reality", per se. We have experiences, experiences that lead us to believe that such things are real. We are not ignoring other aspects of the real world, we're just adding to it, if anything. I think that occultists deserve to be treated with respect, just as anyone does.

I don't wish them ill or harm. I'm not averse to a little light bullying though

The individual I am speaking of certainly does wish us harm.

And if you actively engage in bullying people, that is causing harm. It's disappointing that you think bullying is ever acceptable - it's cruel behaviour and it hurts people who don't deserve it.

@CypressGrove

Because people who try to harm us are a threat, or at least a potential threat.

@Locutus2000

No, I'm not attempting to recruit people to occultism. It is simply a descriptor of myself and fellow members of my community and thus an appropriate word to use when referring to ourselves. A thread about LGBT people would naturally include the term 'LGBT' a lot.

Some people have said that they don't know much about occultists or expressed curiosity about us, so I've used it more in posts explaining who we are and what we encompass.

@Blimms

Well, you don't need to approve of what I do, but if you take a negative attitude to all occultists as people - simply because we think and act differently to you - then I would say that falls into the realm of prejudice.

@CurlewKate

Well, that's not really the main point of this thread, which is to put the case that wanting to cause harm to occultists comes across as hypocritical in light of their inclusiveness of others.

But as occultists, we naturally don't agree that the things we believe in are not true.

We are also not encouraging others to believe as we do. Occultists don't go out proselytising and trying to persuade others to think the same. If someone is interested and wants to take part, we'll happily accept them, but we don't go out trying to convert non-occultists.

We won't necessarily hide who we are (no one should be expected to do that) but we don't actively encourage non-occultists to share our beliefs.

So I don't think that occultists can be reasonably said to be bad for "society". We are such a tiny minority, and we don't attempt to influence how others think - we really don't have the numbers or influence in order to impact society in any meaningful way.