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To think this stance is hypocritical?

157 replies

SorcererGaheris · 24/06/2026 12:22

This is in relation to one particular individual, although I am also aware of it as a broader thing.

Not so long ago I had an interaction with a FB acquaintance in which he stated, among other things - "I intend to do harm to the occult community." As an occultist myself, I am part of this community, and naturally don't like the idea of people actively trying to harm it/us. So I questioned him about his attitude.

(NB - he is not religious, he is a completely secular philosophical materialist, who disdains everything mystical or spiritual. That in itself is not an issue - people are entitled to personal opinions and personal disdain - but when people actively say they want to cause harm to myself and my community, that is a different thing entirely.)

Where I think he is hypocritical is in the fact that he is a champion of diversity, equal rights and minority rights. He himself is an ethnic minority where he lives and speaks out about prejudice and hatred towards racial minorities, LGBT, etc.

If someone is genuinely committed to diversity, then surely that diversity should encompass everyone? Every group/community?

A world without occultists is a LESS diverse world. Advocating for the (at best) marginalisation (or at worst, elimination) of occultists is in direct conflict with the values that he appears to hold.

I don't see how someone who champions diversity can desire to do harm to the occult community, and promote its marginalisation, without being hypocritical.

OP posts:
godmum56 · 24/06/2026 17:25

Livpool · 24/06/2026 17:24

I think you are taking to the literal extreme. People have opinions. Why would someone else’s opinion of you affect you? They aren’t doing anything - just thinking and having an opinion. You seem very sensitive to other people’s opinions. I personally don’t care.

Agree to disagree but you are choosing to hold some random person’s view as important, when it’s not. You’re giving them power.

My mum is a Wiccan, she doesn’t care what people think of her either.

This.

Livpool · 24/06/2026 17:24

SorcererGaheris · 24/06/2026 16:54

@Livpool

I would say that it is prejudice if those negative thoughts are incorrect or unfair. Part of prejudice is pre-judging people (before one knows them) based on stereotypes.

So if someone judges me as stupid (without getting to know me) that would be an example of prejudice.

I think you are taking to the literal extreme. People have opinions. Why would someone else’s opinion of you affect you? They aren’t doing anything - just thinking and having an opinion. You seem very sensitive to other people’s opinions. I personally don’t care.

Agree to disagree but you are choosing to hold some random person’s view as important, when it’s not. You’re giving them power.

My mum is a Wiccan, she doesn’t care what people think of her either.

SorcererGaheris · 24/06/2026 17:22

MistressoftheDarkSide · 24/06/2026 17:12

I think people misunderstand "magic" because it's had such a Disneyfied approach for so long. Much of it isn't far from meditation or mindfulness and the mastery of one's own will. Even science could be considered magic adjacent - it starts with a thought or curiosity, tools and materials are gathered, exprriments (rituals?) performed to seek an outcome. Everyday stuff can be viewed similarly - steeping herbs or grinding beans and drinking the results to soothe or stimulate....

"Occult" simply means hidden, so we have the frisson of the subversive, completely leveraged by authorities who want conformity.

In current times, any declaration to do harm to an individual or group not harming or recruiting others, is disturbing. It's unecessary power play, and little to do with actual beliefs, and leads to mob mentality, which is when the wheels really come off the bus.

The people caught up in previous witch trials - mostly women considered problematic - but also a number of men - weren't likely practising actual magic - a bit of herbalism and midwifery was enough for genuine persecution. It was a reaction to political unrest needing scapegoats under theocratic regime.

I can empathise fully with the OP feelings especially around the hypocrisy of it all. And especially with the tensions growing all around at the moment.

Of all the groups to take umbrage with, the "occultists" or Pagans or Wiccans or whatever branch of esoterica one chooses are the least in your face or public about it, as a rule (well, apart from in my locale apparently, but that's a whole can of worms encompassing personal undercurrents that I'm just watching with popcorn).

It's really a sad indictment of the world we live in. I'll take ridicule, scoffing and dismissal. I don't take open threats of harm.

@MistressoftheDarkSide

It's really a sad indictment of the world we live in. I'll take ridicule, scoffing and dismissal. I don't take open threats of harm.

Yep - thinking about and wanting to cause harm to us is unacceptable. Even if they're essentially empty words and they don't intend to act upon them, there is a whole lot of unpleasantness behind that desire.

OP posts:
SorcererGaheris · 24/06/2026 17:19

MrTiddlesTheCat · 24/06/2026 17:16

What about a Christian who believes that the occult comes from satan and those who practise it are doing the devil's work? Is that not a valid reason to not tolerate occultists?

@MrTiddlesTheCat

Perhaps a valid reason insofar as their belief system, but I would still see them as bigoted.

I was really talking about non-religious people, who don't believe in any devils, therefore do not believe that occultism is "the devil's work." Such people don't believe magic is real of effective, so they don't believe that even spells to cause harm have an effect.

IMO, a secular person who champions inclusivity has no valid reason to be exclusionary or intolerant towards occultists.

OP posts:
MistressoftheDarkSide · 24/06/2026 17:18

MrTiddlesTheCat · 24/06/2026 17:16

What about a Christian who believes that the occult comes from satan and those who practise it are doing the devil's work? Is that not a valid reason to not tolerate occultists?

No, it's quite simple to avoid occultists, if you've identified them as such or they've told you for the most part.

MrTiddlesTheCat · 24/06/2026 17:16

SorcererGaheris · 24/06/2026 13:10

@geraniums111

That's not an apt comparison. Racists and homophobes, as a group, promote bigotry and hatred (and sometimes) take hateful and bigoted actions.

Occultists, as a group, are not promoting bigotry and hatred or harming other people.

There is no valid reason not to be tolerant of occultists.

What about a Christian who believes that the occult comes from satan and those who practise it are doing the devil's work? Is that not a valid reason to not tolerate occultists?

MistressoftheDarkSide · 24/06/2026 17:12

I think people misunderstand "magic" because it's had such a Disneyfied approach for so long. Much of it isn't far from meditation or mindfulness and the mastery of one's own will. Even science could be considered magic adjacent - it starts with a thought or curiosity, tools and materials are gathered, exprriments (rituals?) performed to seek an outcome. Everyday stuff can be viewed similarly - steeping herbs or grinding beans and drinking the results to soothe or stimulate....

"Occult" simply means hidden, so we have the frisson of the subversive, completely leveraged by authorities who want conformity.

In current times, any declaration to do harm to an individual or group not harming or recruiting others, is disturbing. It's unecessary power play, and little to do with actual beliefs, and leads to mob mentality, which is when the wheels really come off the bus.

The people caught up in previous witch trials - mostly women considered problematic - but also a number of men - weren't likely practising actual magic - a bit of herbalism and midwifery was enough for genuine persecution. It was a reaction to political unrest needing scapegoats under theocratic regime.

I can empathise fully with the OP feelings especially around the hypocrisy of it all. And especially with the tensions growing all around at the moment.

Of all the groups to take umbrage with, the "occultists" or Pagans or Wiccans or whatever branch of esoterica one chooses are the least in your face or public about it, as a rule (well, apart from in my locale apparently, but that's a whole can of worms encompassing personal undercurrents that I'm just watching with popcorn).

It's really a sad indictment of the world we live in. I'll take ridicule, scoffing and dismissal. I don't take open threats of harm.

SorcererGaheris · 24/06/2026 17:10

4Lightz · 24/06/2026 17:07

I think people who don’t believe in the occult are the crazy ones. Believing in the occult just means you believe there are things affecting the universe that we can’t prove or explain yet. Of course these things exist. These things have always existed. It wasn’t so long ago that we couldn’t prove there were other planets, or even other countries, or things like bacteria and gravitons. But it didn’t stop them existing. The idea that for some reason in 2026 we have already discovered everything that exists is ludicrous.

And your acquaintance is probably just brainwashed about stories about wicked witches. In reality many witches believe in the rule of three. We aren’t just slinging hexes around for fun. We are careful about the energy we put into the world.

oh and for the previous poster - transwomen are women.

@4Lightz

And your acquaintance is probably just brainwashed about stories about wicked witches.

That's not it. The person in question does not believe magic is real, so doesn't think that harmful spells would have any affect.

They don't think that the spells themselves are harmful.

OP posts:
4Lightz · 24/06/2026 17:07

I think people who don’t believe in the occult are the crazy ones. Believing in the occult just means you believe there are things affecting the universe that we can’t prove or explain yet. Of course these things exist. These things have always existed. It wasn’t so long ago that we couldn’t prove there were other planets, or even other countries, or things like bacteria and gravitons. But it didn’t stop them existing. The idea that for some reason in 2026 we have already discovered everything that exists is ludicrous.

And your acquaintance is probably just brainwashed about stories about wicked witches. In reality many witches believe in the rule of three. We aren’t just slinging hexes around for fun. We are careful about the energy we put into the world.

oh and for the previous poster - transwomen are women.

Whatifitallgoesright · 24/06/2026 17:03

CurlewKate · 24/06/2026 15:35

Believing in things that aren’t true and encouraging others to believe in things that aren’t true is objectively bad for individuals and society.

There are people who believe that transwomen are women which is an untruth that has definitely been bad for individuals and society but in this case I don't think the OP is pushing her beliefs onto all and sundry to their detriment.

All Abrahamic religions proselytise - their beliefs are protected in the Equality Act 2010 and so is the OP's.

godmum56 · 24/06/2026 17:02

block the person problem solved

SorcererGaheris · 24/06/2026 16:58

Swiftie1878 · 24/06/2026 16:55

No-one is though. They’re judging the thing you’re into. Occultism being stupid is an opinion that anyone is free to hold.

@Swiftie1878

If people think I am stupid myself, they are judging me.

If they think occultism is stupid - no, not prejudice.

If they think or say that I as a person am stupid - yes, they are pre-judging me.

OP posts:
Swiftie1878 · 24/06/2026 16:55

SorcererGaheris · 24/06/2026 16:54

@Livpool

I would say that it is prejudice if those negative thoughts are incorrect or unfair. Part of prejudice is pre-judging people (before one knows them) based on stereotypes.

So if someone judges me as stupid (without getting to know me) that would be an example of prejudice.

No-one is though. They’re judging the thing you’re into. Occultism being stupid is an opinion that anyone is free to hold.

SorcererGaheris · 24/06/2026 16:54

Livpool · 24/06/2026 16:50

Exactly! People are going to disagree with you OP, and may think people who think like you are weird or stupid. That ain’t prejudice. It’s an opinion. I am sure some think things I like or follow are stupid or weird. That is their opinion and I couldn’t give a fuck. You should try the same.

Edited

@Livpool

I would say that it is prejudice if those negative thoughts are incorrect or unfair. Part of prejudice is pre-judging people (before one knows them) based on stereotypes.

So if someone judges me as stupid (without getting to know me) that would be an example of prejudice.

OP posts:
SorcererGaheris · 24/06/2026 16:51

VimesandhisCardboardBoots · 24/06/2026 16:48

"Idiots who believe in Gods" unfortunately isn't a minority at all. Just because your sky-wizards aren't one of the popular sky-wizards, doesn't make you special

@VimesandhisCardboardBoots

First of all, not all occultists believe in deities. Most do, but some don't. There are atheistic approaches to witchcraft.

Being a theist is a separate identity in its own right. As theists occultists (those who believe in gods) are not minorities. But as occultists (a separate identity) we are a minority. Because the vast majority of theists are not occultists.

OP posts:
Livpool · 24/06/2026 16:50

Swiftie1878 · 24/06/2026 16:44

No-one has the right to not be offended.
Toughen up and ignore him.

Exactly! People are going to disagree with you OP, and may think people who think like you are weird or stupid. That ain’t prejudice. It’s an opinion. I am sure some think things I like or follow are stupid or weird. That is their opinion and I couldn’t give a fuck. You should try the same.

VimesandhisCardboardBoots · 24/06/2026 16:48

SorcererGaheris · 24/06/2026 16:42

@VimesandhisCardboardBoots

"Minority" is defined as "a small number or part" in the Cambridge dictionary.

So occultists absolutely are a minority. There are very, very few of us - the majority of people are not occultists.

I don't see how you can say we are not a minority, unless you think that more than half of the population practices occultism?

"Idiots who believe in Gods" unfortunately isn't a minority at all. Just because your sky-wizards aren't one of the popular sky-wizards, doesn't make you special

SorcererGaheris · 24/06/2026 16:48

Boreded · 24/06/2026 16:46

if only there were a button on FB that meant you no longer had to interact with…oh wait 🤦‍♀️

@Boreded

I no longer interact with this individual.

The point of the thread is to question his exclusion and prejudice towards me and my community, when in other cases, he supports the notion of diversity.

OP posts:
SorcererGaheris · 24/06/2026 16:47

Swiftie1878 · 24/06/2026 16:44

No-one has the right to not be offended.
Toughen up and ignore him.

@Swiftie1878

I never said they did.

But I can certainly contest it and call it out.

Just as it is understandable when ethnic minorities speak out about horrible things some people say about them, it is equally acceptable for occultist to contest and speak out about our own experiences.

OP posts:
Swiftie1878 · 24/06/2026 16:46

SorcererGaheris · 24/06/2026 16:45

@Swiftie1878

I'm used to prejudice, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. Like I said, it's upsetting to have direct experience of being a victim of prejudice - so in the sense of emotional harm, that matters.

No, it really doesn’t. Someone doesn’t like you. Boo hoo.
Seriously, this is a load of nonsense about nothing. Someone talks shit, and someone else is offended. So what?
Do some magic, cheer yourself up and move on.

Boreded · 24/06/2026 16:46

if only there were a button on FB that meant you no longer had to interact with…oh wait 🤦‍♀️

SorcererGaheris · 24/06/2026 16:45

Swiftie1878 · 24/06/2026 16:43

The world is full of prejudices. Just get used to it. As long as it’s not stopping you from exercising your freedom to choose, what does it matter?

@Swiftie1878

I'm used to prejudice, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. Like I said, it's upsetting to have direct experience of being a victim of prejudice - so in the sense of emotional harm, that matters.

OP posts:
Swiftie1878 · 24/06/2026 16:44

SorcererGaheris · 24/06/2026 16:37

@Swiftie1878

No idea - but even if he weren't actually to act on it, it's still upsetting to have it said to me, just as it's upsetting for other minorities to have people saying horrible things about them.

No-one has the right to not be offended.
Toughen up and ignore him.

Swiftie1878 · 24/06/2026 16:43

SorcererGaheris · 24/06/2026 15:46

@Blimms

Well, you don't need to approve of what I do, but if you take a negative attitude to all occultists as people - simply because we think and act differently to you - then I would say that falls into the realm of prejudice.

The world is full of prejudices. Just get used to it. As long as it’s not stopping you from exercising your freedom to choose, what does it matter?

SorcererGaheris · 24/06/2026 16:42

VimesandhisCardboardBoots · 24/06/2026 16:39

Oh for gods sake, you're not a "minority", any more than a kid who believes in Father Christmas is.

@VimesandhisCardboardBoots

"Minority" is defined as "a small number or part" in the Cambridge dictionary.

So occultists absolutely are a minority. There are very, very few of us - the majority of people are not occultists.

I don't see how you can say we are not a minority, unless you think that more than half of the population practices occultism?

OP posts: