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To think this stance is hypocritical?

157 replies

SorcererGaheris · 24/06/2026 12:22

This is in relation to one particular individual, although I am also aware of it as a broader thing.

Not so long ago I had an interaction with a FB acquaintance in which he stated, among other things - "I intend to do harm to the occult community." As an occultist myself, I am part of this community, and naturally don't like the idea of people actively trying to harm it/us. So I questioned him about his attitude.

(NB - he is not religious, he is a completely secular philosophical materialist, who disdains everything mystical or spiritual. That in itself is not an issue - people are entitled to personal opinions and personal disdain - but when people actively say they want to cause harm to myself and my community, that is a different thing entirely.)

Where I think he is hypocritical is in the fact that he is a champion of diversity, equal rights and minority rights. He himself is an ethnic minority where he lives and speaks out about prejudice and hatred towards racial minorities, LGBT, etc.

If someone is genuinely committed to diversity, then surely that diversity should encompass everyone? Every group/community?

A world without occultists is a LESS diverse world. Advocating for the (at best) marginalisation (or at worst, elimination) of occultists is in direct conflict with the values that he appears to hold.

I don't see how someone who champions diversity can desire to do harm to the occult community, and promote its marginalisation, without being hypocritical.

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maxslice · 25/06/2026 00:26

Maybe being disrespected and marginalized himself, he feels a need to target some group to make himself feel better. He sounds petty and bitter and uninformed. You have my permission to turn him into a toad or a banana slug, something more fitting to his character.

SorcererGaheris · 25/06/2026 00:08

HauntedBungalow · 24/06/2026 23:40

Can't you just get a hold of a frog and hex him?

@HauntedBungalow

I don't need a frog for that, but if I had any evidence of him actually attempting to harm me personally, I'd be happy to hex him myself or get experienced contacts to do it.

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SorcererGaheris · 25/06/2026 00:07

Livpool · 24/06/2026 19:06

That’s very different. I am not going to join in with whatabouterry. We should just agree to disagree.

@Livpool

How is it different? Can you give me some idea of why you think that?

It all boils down to prejudice and bigotry, except one form is against somebody's race/ethnicity and the other is against somebody's worldview and how they live their life.

My point is, being a victim of prejudice and hatred is horrible for anyone. It should be totally understandable why occultists would be upset by it.

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SorcererGaheris · 25/06/2026 00:05

Delphiniumandlupins · 24/06/2026 18:39

If the minority community is racists should they be exempt from prejudice and bullying? I think most of us, if we're honest, would want to be less inclusive of certain people/groups.

@Delphiniumandlupins

I don't think anyone deserves to be bullied, so yes I would say that yes, they should be exempt from that.

I don't think that racists should be exempt from prejudice - but I don't think that's a very good comparison. Racists, are, by definition, all bigoted people.

Occultists are not, by definition, collectively bigoted or spreading hatred.

So I don't see any fair reason for people to not be inclusive of occultists.

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SorcererGaheris · 25/06/2026 00:02

takealettermsjones · 24/06/2026 18:33

But why? Just talking about the principle again, not you personally - why should anyone respect you as people? They should not harm you, I agree totally.

@takealettermsjones

Because all people are entitled to a fundamental basic level of respect, surely? (Perhaps the worst kinds of people in the world are an exception to that, but the majority of occultists are not the worst kind of people.)

I believe that people have the right to be treated with respect.

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HauntedBungalow · 24/06/2026 23:40

Can't you just get a hold of a frog and hex him?

Hallywally · 24/06/2026 19:36

I think psychics and whatnot who use grieving vulnerable people to make money are morally bankrupt.

Livpool · 24/06/2026 19:06

SorcererGaheris · 24/06/2026 17:51

@Livpool

Would you ask the same thing of a person of colour? I'm sure most people of colour are affected, on some level, by a racist's opinion of them.

That’s very different. I am not going to join in with whatabouterry. We should just agree to disagree.

Delphiniumandlupins · 24/06/2026 18:39

If the minority community is racists should they be exempt from prejudice and bullying? I think most of us, if we're honest, would want to be less inclusive of certain people/groups.

takealettermsjones · 24/06/2026 18:33

SorcererGaheris · 24/06/2026 18:31

@ComtesseDeSpair

Occultism isn't a religion.

I didn't say that people have to be tolerant or respectful of our beliefs, but I do think they should be respectful of occultists as people.

A person who says that they believe in diversity but who then excludes people who practice the occult from that - I don't see how that isn't going against the very values they claim to hold. And further than that, they have also said that they think it is okay for occultists to be victims of bullying and discrimination.

Being okay with causing harm to a community is surely unacceptable.

But why? Just talking about the principle again, not you personally - why should anyone respect you as people? They should not harm you, I agree totally.

takealettermsjones · 24/06/2026 18:32

4Lightz · 24/06/2026 17:07

I think people who don’t believe in the occult are the crazy ones. Believing in the occult just means you believe there are things affecting the universe that we can’t prove or explain yet. Of course these things exist. These things have always existed. It wasn’t so long ago that we couldn’t prove there were other planets, or even other countries, or things like bacteria and gravitons. But it didn’t stop them existing. The idea that for some reason in 2026 we have already discovered everything that exists is ludicrous.

And your acquaintance is probably just brainwashed about stories about wicked witches. In reality many witches believe in the rule of three. We aren’t just slinging hexes around for fun. We are careful about the energy we put into the world.

oh and for the previous poster - transwomen are women.

I am no expert but I don't think believing that your friend emailed you because you did a spell to summon Mercury is really the same thing as acknowledging there are probably bacteria we haven't discovered yet.

SorcererGaheris · 24/06/2026 18:31

godmum56 · 24/06/2026 18:11

I think that if a person from an ethnic minority had the same experience as you (social media acquaintance wished them harm) then yes they might well be hurt or shocked or angry but I would hope that they would block the person.

@godmum56

I have indeed unfollowed him, so I no longer have any interaction with him.

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SorcererGaheris · 24/06/2026 18:31

ComtesseDeSpair · 24/06/2026 18:09

I’m not sure when we decided as a society that we should be tolerant and respectful towards nonsense beliefs tbh, and I include pretty much all religious beliefs in that. Believing in nonsense doesn’t make you a minority in anything but the sense that you are among a small minority of people who believe in nonsense about being able to invoke Mercury and cast magical spells. Being committed to diversity doesn’t mean having to have respect for what somebody believes just because it’s their belief.

@ComtesseDeSpair

Occultism isn't a religion.

I didn't say that people have to be tolerant or respectful of our beliefs, but I do think they should be respectful of occultists as people.

A person who says that they believe in diversity but who then excludes people who practice the occult from that - I don't see how that isn't going against the very values they claim to hold. And further than that, they have also said that they think it is okay for occultists to be victims of bullying and discrimination.

Being okay with causing harm to a community is surely unacceptable.

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Prombles · 24/06/2026 18:20

ComtesseDeSpair · 24/06/2026 18:09

I’m not sure when we decided as a society that we should be tolerant and respectful towards nonsense beliefs tbh, and I include pretty much all religious beliefs in that. Believing in nonsense doesn’t make you a minority in anything but the sense that you are among a small minority of people who believe in nonsense about being able to invoke Mercury and cast magical spells. Being committed to diversity doesn’t mean having to have respect for what somebody believes just because it’s their belief.

But I think the issue here is that the person has said he wants to harm the occult community.

  • Disagreeing with beliefs but respecting them - fine
  • Disagreeing with beliefs and not respecting them, but not wishing harm on believers - OK
  • Wishing harm on others for their beliefs - not OK.
MistressoftheDarkSide · 24/06/2026 18:17

Nobody is obliged to respect anyone's beliefs, but they are obliged not to threaten or cause harm to those whose beliefs they don't respect.

godmum56 · 24/06/2026 18:13

ComtesseDeSpair · 24/06/2026 18:09

I’m not sure when we decided as a society that we should be tolerant and respectful towards nonsense beliefs tbh, and I include pretty much all religious beliefs in that. Believing in nonsense doesn’t make you a minority in anything but the sense that you are among a small minority of people who believe in nonsense about being able to invoke Mercury and cast magical spells. Being committed to diversity doesn’t mean having to have respect for what somebody believes just because it’s their belief.

Because who is to choose what is the nonsense and what is not?

godmum56 · 24/06/2026 18:11

SorcererGaheris · 24/06/2026 17:51

@Livpool

Would you ask the same thing of a person of colour? I'm sure most people of colour are affected, on some level, by a racist's opinion of them.

I think that if a person from an ethnic minority had the same experience as you (social media acquaintance wished them harm) then yes they might well be hurt or shocked or angry but I would hope that they would block the person.

ComtesseDeSpair · 24/06/2026 18:09

I’m not sure when we decided as a society that we should be tolerant and respectful towards nonsense beliefs tbh, and I include pretty much all religious beliefs in that. Believing in nonsense doesn’t make you a minority in anything but the sense that you are among a small minority of people who believe in nonsense about being able to invoke Mercury and cast magical spells. Being committed to diversity doesn’t mean having to have respect for what somebody believes just because it’s their belief.

SorcererGaheris · 24/06/2026 17:57

Delphiniumandlupins · 24/06/2026 17:36

Then we're all minorities in lots of ways. The majority of people aren't called Sheila, therefore Sheilas are a minority.

Perhaps your friend thinks occultism may encourage followers to not engage with the real world and cause harm in that way? I don't know if it's magic exactly but I do know someone who sincerely believes they have been cursed. Everything that goes wrong in their life is because of this and there is no way to undo it. Without this belief therapy would probably change the course of their life.

@Delphiniumandlupins

When it comes to varying parts of identities, yes, most if not all people could be minorities in some form.

A white gay man in the UK is still a minority (of the sexual kind) despite also being a majority (of the ethnic kind.) There are various kinds of minorities, and a person can belong to a majority whilst simultaneously belonging to a minority of another background.

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SorcererGaheris · 24/06/2026 17:55

SconehengeRevenge · 24/06/2026 17:43

I love you for your UN alone.

But great comment also

@SconehengeRevenge

In what way is it a great comment?

Like I explained, occultists are a minority, because the vast majority of society are not practicing occultists.

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SorcererGaheris · 24/06/2026 17:54

MrTiddlesTheCat · 24/06/2026 17:29

So you're labelling people with different religious beliefs bigots, showing intolerance of them while demanding tolerance for yourself. Does that not also make you a bit of a hypocrite?

@MrTiddlesTheCat

Not sure - maybe it does. But I'm not saying everyone of a Christian persuasion is bigoted, just those that say occultists are all evil.

Some Christians - quite a few - have nothing personal against occultists as people.

So in this example, I am not promoting intolerance against the entire group. I'm not sure if I would say I'm promoting intolerance of the individuals who I think are bigoted? I think they should be tolerated, as in, allowed to exist and give their views.

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SorcererGaheris · 24/06/2026 17:51

Livpool · 24/06/2026 17:24

I think you are taking to the literal extreme. People have opinions. Why would someone else’s opinion of you affect you? They aren’t doing anything - just thinking and having an opinion. You seem very sensitive to other people’s opinions. I personally don’t care.

Agree to disagree but you are choosing to hold some random person’s view as important, when it’s not. You’re giving them power.

My mum is a Wiccan, she doesn’t care what people think of her either.

@Livpool

Would you ask the same thing of a person of colour? I'm sure most people of colour are affected, on some level, by a racist's opinion of them.

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SconehengeRevenge · 24/06/2026 17:43

VimesandhisCardboardBoots · 24/06/2026 16:39

Oh for gods sake, you're not a "minority", any more than a kid who believes in Father Christmas is.

I love you for your UN alone.

But great comment also

Delphiniumandlupins · 24/06/2026 17:36

SorcererGaheris · 24/06/2026 16:42

@VimesandhisCardboardBoots

"Minority" is defined as "a small number or part" in the Cambridge dictionary.

So occultists absolutely are a minority. There are very, very few of us - the majority of people are not occultists.

I don't see how you can say we are not a minority, unless you think that more than half of the population practices occultism?

Then we're all minorities in lots of ways. The majority of people aren't called Sheila, therefore Sheilas are a minority.

Perhaps your friend thinks occultism may encourage followers to not engage with the real world and cause harm in that way? I don't know if it's magic exactly but I do know someone who sincerely believes they have been cursed. Everything that goes wrong in their life is because of this and there is no way to undo it. Without this belief therapy would probably change the course of their life.

MrTiddlesTheCat · 24/06/2026 17:29

SorcererGaheris · 24/06/2026 17:19

@MrTiddlesTheCat

Perhaps a valid reason insofar as their belief system, but I would still see them as bigoted.

I was really talking about non-religious people, who don't believe in any devils, therefore do not believe that occultism is "the devil's work." Such people don't believe magic is real of effective, so they don't believe that even spells to cause harm have an effect.

IMO, a secular person who champions inclusivity has no valid reason to be exclusionary or intolerant towards occultists.

So you're labelling people with different religious beliefs bigots, showing intolerance of them while demanding tolerance for yourself. Does that not also make you a bit of a hypocrite?