To think this stance is hypocritical?

@takealettermsjones

I don't mind, as it helps me understand exactly what you are saying.

I suppose my definition of disrespect would encompass being unjustly insulted, spoken to very rudely, just treated badly in general.

If you see it as civility rather than respect, then fair enough. I tend to see the two as conflated, but can see how someone might view them as separate things.

Civility should always be the default, IMO.

@takealettermsjones

If you don't think anyone is entitled to any level of respect at all, then would you agree that people are entitled to not be treated with disrespect? (Without doing something to deserve it.)

I would posit that occultists deserve to be treated and spoken to courteously. In my book, that is respecting someone.

@takealettermsjones

I think a certain (higher amount) of respect needs to be earned, but I feel that everyone is entitled to a bare minimum, basic level of respect. By that I mean - being spoken to courteously and being treated kindly and humanely. I believe that people are obliged to speak to me politely, unless I have given them some reason not to. Basically, if I'm not rude to them first, people are wrong to be rude to me.

@Mingou

Yes, there are occultists who hex people. I've been open about that.

My point is that they are not reflective of all occultists as a whole, therefore to judge all occultists as being bad is unjust.

@Mingou

No ethnicity or race or sex or group or any kind is all one thing, but you're judging them all as good or bad as collectives while wanting your own group to all be judged as individuals.

I have not, in this thread, judged any other group as a collective. I have made no negative judgements on races or ethnicities or sexual minorities at all.

Seriously - I would ask that you quote where you believe I have made a sweeping, negative judgement against an entire group, because I do not see where I have done so. I have been defending my group as a collective, not attacking other groups as a whole.

I am not judging other groups as collectives at all. I believe that all members of any group should be judged as individuals, including occultists.

Members of your group seek to harm. Members of your group do harm. Members of your group are not good people.

Yes, there are members of my group that do those things, and I have consistently said that. What I have also said is that they are not representative of every single occultist, so prejudice against occultists as a whole is not acceptable.

@Dastardly2026

You haven't heard the half of it... 😀

@Mingou

My group does not do those things as a collective.

Occultists are not a monolith. Many occultists do not direct harmful spells at anyone at all, even in circumstances where it could be said to be justified.

Quite a few occultists might direct benevolent spells at people (a spell to help them get more money/better job, etc.)

I've never denied that some occultists do cause harm with their spells, I have simply said that this is not something that all occultists do as an entire collective.

So wanting to cause harm to occultists as a whole is not justifiable.

And in the case of this particular gentleman, the nature of occultists' spells is a moot point, as he doesn't believe that magic is real - so he naturally doesn't think that spells have any effect at all. It doesn't make sense for a non-believer to object to malefic spells, as they do not believe the spells have any impact.

@Mingou

Well, my initial wording perhaps wasn't the best.

What I more mean is - surely diversity should encompass every group/community that isn't collectively promoting bigotry and causing harm?"

@CombatBarbie

We are not "making people believe" in magic and spells. We don't proselytise to non-occultists or try to make others believe as we do.

We don't go around seeking out people, but we have a public presence so that people who already believe can seek us out.

There is no "making someone believe" in any of this.

The very fact CULT is part of your descriptive name would set alot of people on edge.

'Cult' being part of 'occult'/'occultist' has nothing to do with the term cult and how it's largely understood/operates today.

The literal translation of "occult" is simply "hidden", and it comes from the Latin word "occultus". It has nothing to do with cults.

The word occult is actually also used in the field of medical science, often in reference to blood.

An occultist is simply a name for someone who practices some form of esotericism, and it doesn't just apply to magic, it also includes spiritualism and interacting with spirits.

So some people would consider you to be an occultist, even though you don't identify with the term.

@maxslice

That could be part of it, although I don't get the impression that he is the victim of much personal disrespect or marginalisation on the basis of his identity. (He may have experienced some prejudice in the past, I wouldn't know.)

I tend to think it's mostly his strident commitment to a materialist viewpoint, which can sometimes go hand in hand with significant hostility to anything to do with spiritualism/occultism.