To think carers are classed as unskilled but expected to be skilled when things go wrong.

The problem is that care is outsourced to private companies. Recently had a care package put in place for a child that cost £15k a week for two x 24/7 waking night carers. Probably £2k of that was wages. This is profit being made from public funds via the local authority.

Why bother indeed? Because they're your parents and if you can't be bothered to help them then why on earth would you expect strangers to want to do it? If nobody cares enough to actually provide the care then maybe we just need to be honest and up front about that rather than pretending that the state can step in and care for an ever growing number of old people without family support and with insufficient money to pay for their own care which could potentially be needed for decades and cost hundreds of thousands of pounds. Where does this money come from? Have they paid enough tax to fund this plus all their healthcare etc over their lifetime? If not, it's pretty easy to see why the system is completely unsustainable.

I think the problem is most couples need both to work full time to pay the mortgage, regardless of whether they have children or not; and how many people (mainly women) could afford to give up work and live instead on about £83 pw carer’s allowance?

Then there’s the sandwich generation like us, still working part time (over 66 with state pension), caring for disabled adult DC and helping working DC with child care of DGC, when needed - where is the time, energy and money to support elderly parents as well?

The NHS does nothing really to help carers, which makes life even harder. Why bother?

yanbu

as with mh support workers the expectations of their knowledge and what they do in their role has greatly increased. so often training is online to meet requirements and this allows employers to add responsibilities to their role

I don’t object at all to the cost of DPs care home, it’s their money and I am so relieved they had it for their care when it was needed.

I tried for about 9 months to augment their state carers ( in Scotland) and keep them at home which was what they wanted and was of course the cheaper option, but with physical frailties and both with separate forms of dementia it proved impossible.

I do find it odd - galling, irritating, upsetting- that despite paying £1900 per week each, the care home seems to be mostly staffed by people who can’t speak much English so can’t interact with residents who generally have hearing difficulties and clearly aren’t that interested in caring. Oh and despite visiting 2-3 times per week I have never seen the care home manager outside her office and walking around seeing how things are going or indeed speaking to the residents and their families.
I feel that the same level of care could be delivered with less staff if they were better trained and more highly motivated which also equates to being better paid. I gravitate with any questions towards the good carers and I bet everyone else does as well, but under the current system probably just ends up with the, being burnt put through too much demand on them.

It is odd isn't it. Yet the same thing doesn't apply to education. Sadly you don't get the same status saying your paying for your parents to be at "post private home" as you do saying you kids are are "Harrow".

Yep, but this all fed by the idea that some people are getting the same or a similar standard of care from the state for free. So why would you willingly blow your life savings or your inheritance on care in this context? Especially when in all likelihood you paid more tax than the person receiving the free care. It's not ideal and might be cutting off your nose to spite your face to some extent, but it's totally understandable why care is completely devalued when it is essentially free for some people. It's the same reason people don't value healthcare in the country.

No but then they also complain about the cost of private care. Then once people actual need high levels of care their kids are more focused on the inheritance then paying their parents carers properly.

One of the things that annoys me the most about my job is the amount of responsibility I have for 29 pence an hour above minimum wage. I have to be in charge of medications and dispense them accurately. Only nursing staff can do that in hospitals. I get no sick pay only SSP and after I was attacked seriously at work I got no company sick pay. My hours are not guaranteed. I have no idea what I will earn next month. The rota’s can change in a heartbeat. It’s a job I do for love but I’m sick of working under the threat of serious harm and I am now actively looking to leave.

If you look at the job it does say part of their offerings is care certificates/ NVQs. I’m pretty sure there is a rule that you have to be qualified or at least working towards level 2 within a certain period

100% agree. Same for teaching assistants and any assistant level jobs working with kids with SEN. Sad that those entrusted with looking after the most vulnerable in society are paid the bare minimum.

Well considering a lot of people will not be eligible for state funded care the it's hardly surprising is it?

Too many people don't want their council tax increased enough to pay carers properly.

Maybe.
In an ideal world after a lottery win my mother in law would move into an annexe in the garden. Her care needs arent great and with close family support we would be able to do it.

However distance, and my work and family commitments mean it isn't doable. Its not a question of what we are willing to sacrifice because there isnt a sacrifice to be made. We own a home, we couldnt afford the rent in mil area, nor to buy. Especially with reduced wages due to caring. Mil is council, and cant move county (we asked!).

We cant afford much private care for her, neither can she. And the whole basis of a care package from the council would be that we would still need to massively contribute. The food shop is only one aspect, we get regular calls from the carers with reasonable requests. When she had temporary care while recovering from a steoke , the extra enhanced care, its super rarem youre lucky to get it care package had massive gaps in it eg any task that might take more than a few min

Currently we are driving over at least monthly but financially its not doable for us long term.

The system is completely propped by unpaid carers.

I wonder what would happen if she had no one . What happens to all the tasks that arent in your 2x30 min call like throwing out food in the fridge, bigger cleaning jobs, buying laundry powder, sorting out banking etc to those people. I suspect what happens is that they dont get done and the person deteriorating into care homes

I was reading a good book about the future of work that talked about how ultimately, no technology is going to be able to replace care and education - care work, healthcare, teaching, and childcare. These should all be highly regarded kinds of work with excellent training and good pay.

Whilst I agree that the world has changed, I do ultimately believe that most of us don't want to be carers for our own relatives, let alone strangers, even if we were paid to do so. I wish we had a poll on this thread to confirm the percentage of people that would willingly accept the role of carer if circumstances allowed. I can almost guarantee that it would be a small percentage and if scaled, would leave us with insufficient carers to meet the Nation's care needs.

I think we are still in a strange hybrid model where there is an assumption that the state is ultimately responsible for all our care. So if we fail to save enough money or can't find a willing relative, then the state has to care for us. The problem is that this is predicated on an underlying fact that the majority of care undertaken in the country is provided by friends and relatives. Millions of people are providing over 50 hours of care per week for friends and relatives. The state could not absorb this level of care and the whole system would fall apart if the informal care stopped. So people like your grandmother have to be in the minority but then this leads to claims of unfairness. If I am caring for my relative at my detriment then why doesn't everyone have to? Why do our taxes fund care for some so that their relatives can maintain lifestyles whilst others have to make great personal sacrifices to offer care?

In England?
Not typically.
Sometimes they will put you through it when working

Lots of care agencies are actively recruiting stating you dont need experience or qualifications

I posted some job vacancies above from a few mile radius that didnt need it

https://www.helpinghandshomecare.co.uk/jobs/care-jobs-no-experience/

https://www.lilianfaithfull.co.uk/blog/how_to_become_a_care_worker_with_no_experience/

OK, so how much do bin men get paid compared to carers? They sure as hell get paid more, but i guess a penis counts as a qualification.

You usually at a minimum have to be at least enrolled at college and working towards a level 2 qualification in care for even a starter job.

Private care companies will take you on from 16 with basic training. There are certain things you can’t do and you would mainly work with dementia patients and do hygiene etc nothing medial but you don’t need formal qualifications to be a care worker

Genuinely not for a big standard care job
https://uk.indeed.com/viewjob?jk=adba58baa4d0e60c&from=shareddesktop_copy

https://uk.indeed.com/viewjob?jk=413e28c475c79397&from=shareddesktop_copy

https://uk.indeed.com/viewjob?jk=413e28c475c79397&from=shareddesktop_copy

https://uk.indeed.com/viewjob?jk=5cf482dc4ffb4631&from=shareddesktop_copy

Enjoy the one that calls it a complex role.

Is this in a hospital? NHS or council run facility then yes you will private ones will take you on from
16 with no care back ground at all

Strange. I’ve looked into it for myself in the past and every job I looked at required NVQ’s in care at level 3 or 4.

I work in care. 13hts shifts dealing with everything from personal care, medication, behavioural issues to shopping and dealing with hospital admissions. Its a very demanding job paid very poorly and if anything goes wrong you are basically on your own. No extra pay for nights or weekends and little time off. I do it because im good at the job, I am highly trained and im a qualified teacher. One of the problems is that people coming from overseas like to get jobs on this field as they can then access free NHS care for themselves and their family. Some not all of these people are not adequately trained as a previous poster has said training in other countries is no where near the same quality. They are just in the job as it gives access to the NHS, a lot dont actually care about the people they support and do not have the right attitude for the job. It makes the job a lot harder for the ones who are in it for the right reasons.

I believe its a shady area. There was a drive to have clear rules around it but it never happened

In theory you should be entitled to minimum wage but its unclear when this applies

Its not unusual in the care industry and for a while it was rife in hospitality. People working full shifts in restaurants without pay for a job that didn't exist

There are lots of care agency practices that are shady and potentially go against workers rights. However its an area where often the workers have very little choice, arent always informed and dont have easy access to unions etc. Lots of people do kick up a fuss and refuse stuff, but ultimately its hard to find agencies that are playing by the rules so you end up going along with it

It's also partially the risks around lots of immigrant staff, they are less likely to know their entitlements and more likely to struggle to walk out.

For example there is manual handling training but its not uncommon to not have the time to do it properly.

Someone who is an NHS hca is much more protected in terms and conditions, Much more likely to have a union presence, sick leave and access to a hr department